Anyone into gardening here? | Page 13 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Anyone into gardening here?

Keep us updated. I thought you're creating a barrier between the new sod and your old soil. Your new sod might have trouble growing through. Grass root need to go 4 inches minimum to be healthy.

The old grass being composted underneath the new soil will create heat and stop any thing to grow through. This is why youneed to use sod cuter to remove old sod completely, letting new soil and old soil contact well for microorganism to live.

I'm very curious to see how this turns out

I hope it turns out and I'll keep you all posted

it was tilled as mentioned it then sat and dried out for over 2 weeks or so, I even tilled a 2nd time on my own, first time was by the grass guy, I even took my lawnmower over the whole area and pulverized anything and everything, and just a few days ago the new soil was put down and grass guy couldn't make it again so it sat for 3 days, and finally all the sod was laid today, and lots of watering, well enough to get a good soak but not water logged

whe I tilled the blades went down at least 3 inches, so I should be good,,,,fingers crossed

at least the veggies and flowers are doing well.....

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I hope it turns out and I'll keep you all posted

it was tilled as mentioned it then sat and dried out for over 2 weeks or so, I even tilled a 2nd time on my own, first time was by the grass guy, I even took my lawnmower over the whole area and pulverized anything and everything, and just a few days ago the new soil was put down and grass guy couldn't make it again so it sat for 3 days, and finally all the sod was laid today, and lots of watering, well enough to get a good soak but not water logged

whe I tilled the blades went down at least 3 inches, so I should be good,,,,fingers crossed

at least the veggies and flowers are doing well.....

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Oh ... that sounds great i think you nailed it.

Did you use starter fertilizer to help the root bites?
 
Joe, I don't know if all mulberries are edible, but any mulberry tree I've ever been around is great snacking. Nice place to stand under on a hot day and pick away in the shade.

I don't use raised beds, because I've been too busy to build them each spring. I don't mind the plants on the ground too much - I have very little weeding to do, and my back is pretty used to working physically. I have already done up the plans for the raised beds, because I do think they are a more efficient way to use space. But for me, raised beds are permanent, so if I'm going to build them, I better be happy with their placement. I think now after growing the veggies here for a few summers, I know my space well enough that maybe next year I will build them. 2 years ago I built the gardens, last year I did a flagstone walkway, seated area and did a lot of perennial replanting, this year I built the compost bin plus lots more planting and next year will be the raised beds and hopefully a waterfall/pond.

Time and money.

Yeah main reason i dont grow outdoor is I'm afraid to mess up the landscape.... also had to rebuild everything when you sell the house.

In doors i use hydroponic setup. Now I'm learning about fishes so i can create my own plant food.
 
There is a book I often recommend - it's called The Organic Lawn Care Manual, by Paul Tukey. It's a very simple, but informative read.

A starter fertilizer is higher in Phosphorus which is the middle number on a fertilizer label that you might commonly come across in a store. Those numbers often look like 20-20-20 or 10-52-10 etc... Each number represents a % of the total weight of the bag. Different nutrients do different things for plants, where Nitrogen is often helpful with green leafy growth, Phosphorus for root, flower and fruit development and Potassium helps with cell development and overall plant health. It has been common practice for years to add what is called a starter fertilizer when planting, because it's high in Phosphorus, and therefore should help with getting the roots established a bit more quickly than without. If you were to add this, you should have mixed it into the soil, before laying the sod. If you go to a store, and compare synthetic fertilizers with natural fertilizers, you will often see that the synthetic fertilizers have much higher numbers - meaning stronger concentrations that are less forgiving to mistakes among other things.

The other problem here is that when growing plants outside, unless a soil test indicates otherwise, there is often ample phosphorus in the soil that extra phosphorus is not really needed, especially if it's chemically based, and also considering that plants use much more nitrogen and potassium in general for leafy growth. Synthetic fertilizers also change the makeup of soil and negatively alters the soil ecosystem in a way that is not beneficial to plants in the long term. Feed the soil, not the plant. Some use a product like bonemeal, which is a powder that comes from the ground up bones from the meat industry and usually contains about 10% Phosphorus. Since you already added new soil, you also had your old, tilled grass under the new soil, which will continue to decompose, your soil should be okay.

One thing that would be a helpful long term benefit to the health of a new lawn would be to mix in mycorrhizae into the soil before laying the sod. It's a fine granular product and it's often sold under the brand name MYKE. In nature, without human intervention, about 95% of all plants have a mycorrhizal relationship. It's essentially a naturally occurring beneficial fungus that attaches to the roots of plants and forms a symbiotic relationship with the plant. It grows with the roots as they grow, so you only need to apply it once. Adding phosphorus to it though will kill the fungus. It takes sugars from the plant, and in return it increases both the surface area of the roots and the density of the fine hairs of the roots, making the plants much more drought tolerant, more able to access nutrients in the soil and much more tolerant of environmental stresses. It's quite good stuff and I've done comparisons between plants grown from seed with and without the mycorrihzae over 8-12 week periods with obvious differences in root developments. You won't see much of a difference in the leaf growth of the plant, but the plant will be much tougher and resilient.

TLDR: Feed the soil, not the plant. You should be fine, especially if the sod was laid properly, compacted properly after laying and watered in well. A home lawn almost never needs synthetic fertilizers. Make sure you topdress with some compost every year, leave the mulched clippings when you mow, and water deeply and infrequently to promote deep roots and you will be fine. Add some clover in your lawn to get more free nitrogen and you're golden.
 
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Shane - you rock - thanks for all your info.
Joe Bass seconds this. ?

...and Shane, what was that about clover? I thought clover is bad?

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Clover is only a weed if you don't like it or want it there. Before herbicides became popular in use, around pre-WW2, you would have seen clover in many lawns. In fact you might say that a measure of a healthy lawn included how much clover was in the lawn. Once indiscriminate herbicides came into play, they removed the non-grass type plants that had much wider or different leaf structures and clover started to disappear from lawns. The new standard became this monoculture type appearance of grass type plants only.

The thing is that clover basically extracts atmospheric nitrogen and brings it down to the soil layer. Clover has these little nodules on their roots where that nitrogen goes to. The micro-organisms in the soil then convert this nitrogen into a form that is usable by all the other plants. This is called nitrogen fixing. All plants in the bean/pea family do this. Many farmers will grow a green manure type crop where they plant something in their fields that will fix the nitrogen, and then they till that plant back into the soil, to enrich the soil for their next crop. This is especially useful for crops that are heavy feeders of Nitrogen.

Just like cool said - it all about the soil really. Generally speaking, if your soil is low in nitrogen, clover will thrive. If your soil is higher in nitrogen, clover will not do well as the soil environment is not ideal. If you have clover and want to get rid of it, add some nitrogen and it will slowly go away. If you want your lawn to be able to feed itself better, mix in about 10% clover into your lawn seed mix. Basically what I'm saying here is that if grass uses nitrogen the most, and clover takes nitrogen from the air and helps convert it into a form that is usable by grass, then it's like free fertilizer for your grass. Clover is also very drought tolerant and will stay green during the intense heat of the summer, so from a distance, your lawn looks green even though the grass may have started to go dormant and turn brown.
 
I put 55 rolls of sod on my lawn, and from reading above its more complicated than putting the green side up. Theres $200 down the drain, its pretty brown
 
I have a mulching mower. I even get mushrooms when the weather is good (lots of rain). But I've got a few patches of clover. Haven't used any chemicals to get rid of this, just been weeding as much as possible.

is is because I use a chemical fertilizer? Is the clover actually good for thhe rest of the lawn, or to improve the soil for later years? How to reduce the clover and get back to grass in a natural way?
 
I don't know why anyone would want to remove clover from their lawn.

http://www.almanac.com/content/clover-comeback

[h=3]BENEFITS OF CLOVER[/h]
  • White clover (Trifolium repens) is a rapid spreader that crowds out broadleaf weeds while it grows harmoniously with grass. It will thrive in areas that are poorly drained or too shady for a conventional lawn.
  • Being a legume, clover has the ability to convert nitrogen into fertilizer using bacteria in it’s root system, practically eliminating the need for additional fertilization.
  • It is an extremely drought-resistant plant and will keep its cool-green color even during the hottest and driest parts of summer.
  • Left uncut, white clover grows 4-8 inches tall and produces small white flowers that are often tinged with pink. The flowers not only create a beautiful visual effect, but also bring in bees, butterflies, and beneficial insects that prey on garden pests.
  • Honeybees rarely sting when they are away from their hive, but if they make you uncomfortable or you are allergic to bee stings, simply have the lawn mowed more often when clover is in bloom.
 
I agree soils is what you want to build but its perfectly fine to use synthetic when it needs.

Youwant the new sod on steroids to grow thro the ground. The quick er the faster microorganisms starts.

Reason being is most top soil has no nutrition. I dont even call them soil. They're usually black and used as top dressing for comestic around your tree root zone.

Real soil isnt black. Only compost is black, and you would know as compost has a sweet smell.

I always use synthetic starter fertilizer the area of new sod. After 3 weeks, i will use organic fertilizer such as Ringer.
 
I don't know why anyone would want to remove clover from their lawn.

http://www.almanac.com/content/clover-comeback

BENEFITS OF CLOVER


  • White clover (Trifolium repens) is a rapid spreader that crowds out broadleaf weeds while it grows harmoniously with grass. It will thrive in areas that are poorly drained or too shady for a conventional lawn.
  • Being a legume, clover has the ability to convert nitrogen into fertilizer using bacteria in it’s root system, practically eliminating the need for additional fertilization.
  • It is an extremely drought-resistant plant and will keep its cool-green color even during the hottest and driest parts of summer.
  • Left uncut, white clover grows 4-8 inches tall and produces small white flowers that are often tinged with pink. The flowers not only create a beautiful visual effect, but also bring in bees, butterflies, and beneficial insects that prey on garden pests.
  • Honeybees rarely sting when they are away from their hive, but if they make you uncomfortable or you are allergic to bee stings, simply have the lawn mowed more often when clover is in bloom.

However if you got area thats full of clover and no grass.... thats a sign your soil is too compact. You need to aerate the area.

You want to keep it balance.

If your soil is full of microorganism, you dont need clover to break down nitrogen.
 
Compost, triple mix, top soil, loam etc Are there any specific definitions on which is which and what one is getting?

I see bulk stuff that all looks very similar. I've been told compost isn't good for lawns as it may contain unwanted seeds.
 
Thats only if you buy from bad source aka.... you supermarket, homedepot. Compost dressing is the key to help new seed germinate when you are reseeding. Some people use peatmoss.

Problem with peatmoss is you have to filter it to fine dust, otherwise it takes a long time to break down.
 
To add to @nobbie48 's question: I hear differing opinions on which is better, bagged or bulk soil/ mulch/ seed etc. I thought I read that bagged is irradiated (hope that is the tight term) to be weed free?

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To add to @nobbie48 's question: I hear differing opinions on which is better, bagged or bulk soil/ mulch/ seed etc. I thought I read that bagged is irradiated (hope that is the tight term) to be weed free?

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Its all marketing. They usually come from the same place anyway.

Its hard to say which brand is honest with their claim, even different batch comes with different result. The yellowbag brand also source from local places across the region, they're also not consistent in results.

I've tested the Costco brand , i find its good. Also as a Costco member you can request your money back, as long as you document your project to show them.
 
Here's a bunch of answers to questions asked. Remember there are always different opinions, just like an oil thread or how to break in your new bike. For all the soil questions, I personally really like the soil and aggregates at Petrie's out in Milton. Their stuff is slightly more expensive than some other places, but it's very high quality and I really feel you get what you pay for out there. For Toronto area, I have always had great soil and mulch from Speelman's which is just near Rosey Toes at Wendell/Wilson Ave.

FLSTC: Clover is actually good for your lawn, now and for the future, because of all the things that Matthew posted in that link. Having healthy soil under your grass is best, but having a touch of clover is a little better. If you want to get rid of clover because you prefer just having grass, then you could hand pull it little by little, with the aid of a fan rake to help lift it thereby making it easier to pull. You could also fertilize with nitrogen (use corn gluten) because generally speaking, clover dislikes soils that have an abundance of nitrogen, and the clover also tends to show up in soils that are lower in nitrogen. Nitrogen however, is rather mobile in the soil, which means it has a higher tendency to leach out of the soil in heavy rainstorms and enter the wastewater system - if you care about that sort of thing then don't overuse the product while trying to give some extra love to your grass.

nobbie48: Compost is a term used to describe well decomposed organic matter. Fully decomposed organic matter is the ideal end product and is called humus. Compost is excellent as a major component of vegetable beds and can also be used once a year as a lawn topdressing to help enrich the soil. Compost is best if the internal temperature of the compost pile has reached about 60degC, to help kill off any pathogens and weed seeds. Often this is not the case and so compost like I make in my backyard will certainly have weed seeds in it. This year my weeds seeds are tomatoes - hundreds of them popping up everywhere! Compost purchased at a reputable place should have their compost produced in a monitored environment where weeds seeds are properly cooked. There are different types of compost and sometimes they will also have a type of manure mixed in. Read the label or talk to a worker there who knows what they are selling.

Triple mix is a term used to describe a type of soil that typically has 3 main parts to it, which are usually compost, topsoil and either sand or peat moss in varying proportions, depending on where it is processed. There are some who feel that peat is a semi non-renewable resource and should not be mined from peat bogs, because they are delicate ecosystems that have taken thousands of years to form. Triple mix is generally used in garden beds where different plants have different nutrient/moisture needs and the blend of ingredients serves a variety of plants well.

Topsoil is quite literally the soil in the top several inches of the earths surface and should typically have a high nutrient content if it is fresh, because plants have been growing and decomposing in it for a long time. If it has been sitting for a long time in a garden center, that nutrient content may degrade somewhat. There can be weeds in top soil, but usually a quality aggregate/garden center will sell screened soil that is relatively weed free. Top soil is generally great for lawns as a base layer or as a yearly topdressing and if fresh, I would also suggest it for gardens.

Worth noting... another soil term that is commonly used is loam. Loam is part sand, silt and clay at a ratio of 2:2:1. With about 5% organic matter thrown into it, it makes what is generally considered to be the ideal soil which has the perfect balance of drainage, water retention, nutrient content/retention and porosity. That ratio would look something like 38%sand, 38%silt, 19%clay, 5%organic matter.

Joe: Soil that is bagged or bulk may totally vary in quality based on what was put in it to begin with. Furthermore, what one place calls triple mix might be quite different in quality than another place. Same goes for compost and topsoil. I personally like to order my soil/mulch by the cubic yard and have a truck just dump it on my driveway. This way I can just shovel/wheelbarrow it around where I need it and more importantly, I can go to the place it comes from and inspect it to see if I like it or not. I can't do this as well with the bagged stuff, but usually the bagged stuff is fine for small jobs if you are talking about the 30l bags at home depot etc. And yes this same bagged soil is typically cooked to the point that it would be completely weed free. A friend I work with (who received one of the big 'Less Mess' cubic yards of soil for her allotment garden) was telling me that the soil she received does not seem to accept water very well. Sometimes when the soil is cooked to make sure it is weed or pathogen free, the soil seems to get so hot, it then becomes hydrophobic and repels water. I also see this with the city compost that has a tough time properly absorbing water the way a nice soil/compost would - and it also has plastic it in it, but I digress. I'm not totally sure why these soil types get hydrophobic, but I'm guessing it's the cooking process.
Lastly seed sold in bulk is only better in that you can specifically choose the varieties of grass seed you are buying. So if you know areas of your lawn that are shady/moist and another that is sunny/dry and another that is shady/dry etc, you can put down seed for each specific area and make them gradually blend into each other so it doesn't look patchy. If you have a shady area, don't lay sod there, because sod is almost always Kentucky Bluegrass which often has a poor shade tolerance. Sod is excellent for sunny area, but buy shade seed for the shady areas (like Creeping Red Fescue, Hard Fescue, Chewings Fescue), or lay sod to get the instant lawn effect and overseed with shade specific varieties.

TLDR: read that book I posted about earlier.
 
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