Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[backmarkerducati]

Forum Sponsor

So if a dealer is selling a car for $25,000 and you choose not to finance, he won't let you have it for the advertised price? That's crazy if true.

Yes, it can also happen with new cars... The end/final possible finance price and cash price can be different, cash is often higher.

They get a kickback on the finance so they can take less on the vehicle. It can be hard to accept for the cash is king crowd... but, but, but I have cash???

 

[PrivatePilot]

So if a dealer is selling a car for $25,000 and you choose not to finance, he won't let you have it for the advertised price? That's crazy if true.

Not uncommon. Lots of places advertise “cash” vs “financed” prices.

Then make the deal without discussing financing.

Did that when I bought my 2011 Volt - sales guy never asked, I never volunteered - showed up with a bank draft for the full amount and pulled it out just as he was about to go into financing. He almost pulled the escape chute on the whole deal but in the end the sales manager said to just go forward as they wanted to move the car badly. Bird in the hand scenario. By the time I made them replace the missing floor mats, fix the heated seats, and got a discount for the missing EVSE the previous owner decided to keep instead of return with the car, they may actually have lost money on that car lol.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Then make the deal without discussing financing.

Then you will likely just get their "best" cash price... specially if it is a high demand vehicle.

 

[PrivatePilot]

In related news, this is why just blindly allowing the Chinese to overrun the North American EV market is a bad idea. They’re just plain conniving..

www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-workers-byd-brazil-factory-signed-contracts-with-abusive-clauses-2025-01-31/

Paying Brazilians $70 for a 10 hour day, and that’s twice the rate the Chinese employees make. Imagine companies paying slave labour $3.50 an hour rates, now understand why those Chinese cars are being tariffed all to hell before entering the North American market.

 

[Sochi]

So if a dealer is selling a car for $25,000 and you choose not to finance, he won't let you have it for the advertised price? That's crazy if true.

Yes, 100% true, from what I see it's about 2-3K more and most of them disclose it if you read the full add, usually at the bottom says something "price is for financing only" or smthg like this.
Still it's MUCH cheaper comparing to borrowing cost with current lending rate for any term over 2-3 years. So cash wins if I did my math right

 

[GreyGhost]

Yes, 100% true, from what I see it's about 2-3K more and most of them disclose it if you read the full add, usually at the bottom says something "price is for financing only" or smthg like this.
Still it's MUCH cheaper comparing to borrowing cost with current lending rate for any term over 2-3 years. So cash wins if I did my math right

You did the math wrong. Take the financing, get the cheaper price, they are pretty much all open loans so take your cash and pay it off the next day. Very close to zero interest, no penalty, cheaper otd price.

I'm still in the sunset of an auto loan that we got at 2%. When loan is below inflation, you are way ahead not to pay it off. Obviously that's not the market that exists right now.

 

[Sochi]

You did the math wrong. Take the financing, get the cheaper price, they are pretty much all open loans so take your cash and pay it off the next day. Very close to zero interest, no penalty, cheaper otd price.

I'm still in the sunset of an auto loan that we got at 2%. When loan is below inflation, you are way ahead not to pay it off. Obviously that's not the market that exists right now.

I hear you, I haven't had any dept for the last 12ish years lol, so I might need to refresh my knowledge of all options before my next purchase which is coming when time is right

 

[mimico_polak]

There was a Mazda dealer I posted to a few pages ago, and they literally had: Cash Price = X, Finance price = X - $2000 (or something there).

Now that people got wise to it, they just force you to buy certain packages / warranties and state 'these are none negotiable'.

I had a dealer on a Maverick tell me 'we add this tire / wheel warranty on so you don't have to pay the document fee'.

Same poo...different name.

I blame the customers for accepting these shenanigans because we all 'need' a car...so manufacturers / dealers went gangbuster during the height of times.

If people didn't buy and pay their bullcrap fees...we wouldn't have bullcrap fees.

 

[raginduck]

There was a Mazda dealer I posted to a few pages ago, and they literally had: Cash Price = X, Finance price = X - $2000 (or something there).

Now that people got wise to it, they just force you to buy certain packages / warranties and state 'these are none negotiable'.

I had a dealer on a Maverick tell me 'we add this tire / wheel warranty on so you don't have to pay the document fee'.

Same poo...different name.

I blame the customers for accepting these shenanigans because we all 'need' a car...so manufacturers / dealers went gangbuster during the height of times.

If people didn't buy and pay their bullcrap fees...we wouldn't have bullcrap fees.

Would this work...
Buy the car, take the financing... pick up the car.. drive over to the bank and pay it off?

 

[mimico_polak]

Would this work...
Buy the car, take the financing... pick up the car.. drive over to the bank and pay it off?

Yes. You may get an angry call from the salesman as typically the bank needs X months of payments before they pay the full commission...but...you know...*shrug*.

I did it because we were about to close on a property and I needed to be free and clear of debts. So I just paid it off literally before the first payment came out of my bank account on the finance.

There may be a clause that 'you must make X payments' or something something in the sales contract...but most times those aren't enforceable and no one is going to chase the customer for paying their car off faster.

 

[GreyGhost]

Yes. You may get an angry call from the salesman as typically the bank needs X months of payments before they pay the full commission...but...you know...*shrug*.

I did it because we were about to close on a property and I needed to be free and clear of debts. So I just paid it off literally before the first payment came out of my bank account on the finance.

There may be a clause that 'you must make X payments' or something something in the sales contract...but most times those aren't enforceable and no one is going to chase the customer for paying their car off faster.

Just read carefully. If it's an open loan, you are in good shape. If they start slipping in closed loans to screw you, walk away.

 

[mimico_polak]

Just read carefully. If it's an open loan, you are in good shape. If they start slipping in closed loans to screw you, walk away.

I've yet to hear of a reputable / manufacturer dealer have a closed loan.

The mom and pop 'buy and finance here' type of dealerships...read the fine print.

 

[Evoex]

Just read carefully. If it's an open loan, you are in good shape. If they start slipping in closed loans to screw you, walk away.

My understanding is all financed car loans (through banks anyways) are open loans in Canada.

 

[Evoex]

Would this work...
Buy the car, take the financing... pick up the car.. drive over to the bank and pay it off?

Technically yes, but more than likely you would need to wait a week or two for the paperwork to get all sorted out at the banks end. Some contracts as @GreyGhost mentioned specifically say 'it cannot be paid off before 3 months' or something like that. Check the fine print.

 

[nakkers]

Vehicle loans are my game. Unless you go to the secondary market, they are open. Most lenders don’t pay the dealer if it’s paid off within a given time frame. Typically 60 days or more. Most dealers should mention to the buyer if they plan to pay off the loan, to avoid paying off within a given time frame to avoid them not getting their kick back.

 

[raginduck]

Vehicle loans are my game. Unless you go to the secondary market, they are open. Most lenders don’t pay the dealer if it’s paid off within a given time frame. Typically 60 days or more. Most dealers should mention to the buyer if they plan to pay off the loan, to avoid paying off within a given time frame to avoid them not getting their kick back.

Can you give any insight into the 'kickback' amounts the dealers get?

 

[nakkers]

Can you give any insight into the 'kickback' amounts the dealers get?

Depends on the overall relationship. Generally speaking it’s in the low hundreds of dollars per loan. It’s not as much as you might think. A lot of variables though. Age of vehicle and APR to customer. Higher the APR, more the kick back. Older vehicle, shorter terms and higher apr but, kick back isn’t great. Maybe $150.

They could have an agreement with their corporate bank that handled their floor planning and deposits etc. They can get preferred rates on their floor planning as well as a little more juice for the loans booked. More business lines, better incentives.

So your Indy sellers and mid size folks don’t get a lot unless it’s in the secondary lending space. Couple hundred bucks to the dealer and not sure how they split it with the finance manager vs business line.


Edit: I’ve seen it as high as a grand for a loan but, it’s the exception and not the rule. Median is likely $500.

 

[raginduck]

Depends on the overall relationship. Generally speaking it’s in the low hundreds of dollars per loan. It’s not as much as you might think. A lot of variables though. Age of vehicle and APR to customer. Higher the APR, more the kick back. Older vehicle, shorter terms and higher apr but, kick back isn’t great. Maybe $150.

They could have an agreement with their corporate bank that handled their floor planning and deposits etc. They can get preferred rates on their floor planning as well as a little more juice for the loans booked. More business lines, better incentives.

So your Indy sellers and mid size folks don’t get a lot unless it’s in the secondary lending space. Couple hundred bucks to the dealer and not sure how they split it with the finance manager vs business line.

Is it fair to say the $2000 price difference for paying cash.. is too much and more than covers the kickbacks?

 

[nakkers]

Is it fair to say the $2000 price difference for paying cash.. is too much and more than covers the kickbacks?

I only worked for one institution and wasn’t privy to competitor rates.

It does seem on the high side for a difference between the two.

 

[Sochi]

Is it fair to say the $2000 price difference for paying cash.. is too much and more than covers the kickbacks?

My friend recently bought Pilot from Clutch.ca, they charge flat 3.5% “cash processing fee”. He just paid cash to avoid touching his credit record score and save time.
These guys are online so no usual dirty dealership tricks, he said price was better than 90% dealerships, car clean and process is pretty streamlined.

Forum Sponsor