Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Personally I wouldn't even think about spending that much on a Hyundai product but that's my bias.

I'd spend $40K any day of the week on a Hyundai or Kia or GM or Honda or Chrysler (etc) vs spending it on a luxury brand of any sort. A $40K Hyundai is going to be infinitely more reliable than a $40K BMW or Porche or whatever.

Now, I wish I could say $40K was a lot for a car anymore, but put beside new $100K pickup trucks and new $25K econoboxes, meh.
 
I'd spend $40K any day of the week on a Hyundai or Kia or GM or Honda or Chrysler (etc) vs spending it on a luxury brand of any sort. A $40K Hyundai is going to be infinitely more reliable than a $40K BMW or Porche or whatever.

Now, I wish I could say $40K was a lot for a car anymore, but put beside new $100K pickup trucks and new $25K econoboxes, meh.
I would almost agree but stellantis products are rolling computer glitches these days.

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but stellantis products are rolling computer glitches these days.

Well, Chrysler is admittedly low on the list lol.

Although our Chrysler 300 that started this thread back on page 1 served us very well, as did my Magnum. But that was a long time ago and much older vehicles.
 
I'd spend $40K any day of the week on a Hyundai or Kia or GM or Honda or Chrysler (etc) vs spending it on a luxury brand of any sort. A $40K Hyundai is going to be infinitely more reliable than a $40K BMW or Porche or whatever.

Now, I wish I could say $40K was a lot for a car anymore, but put beside new $100K pickup trucks and new $25K econoboxes, meh.
I decided a while back that cars mean nothing to me. I’ve owned a **** ton of very expensive cars and trucks that did no better than the economy boxes I’ve had for the last few years.

Before my last 3 purchases, I looked at EVs. New EVs don’t make economic sense, used come with too much risk.

My latest thinking is to buy used with an extended warranty. I just priced a 3 year unlimited warranty on a 2021 car with 100k on the clock. The car is $65000 less than its new price, a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty is $3600.

.
 
just buy a hybrid, makes the most sense right now.

most arent priced stupidly either.

we're making progress with EVs, but I dont think the market is fully ready for them yet.

skip the Hyudai/Kia stuff,

give it another year or so, Honda will have some compelling products coming.
 
Before my last 3 purchases, I looked at EVs. New EVs don’t make economic sense, used come with too much risk.

Not a much as the internet would have everyone believe. There's much FUD out there. Remember, they all have 8 year/160,000km warranties on all the expensive EV bits.

Warning: Long reply ahead, but lots of facts.

I think I paid something like $11K for my 2011 Volt IIRC in Jan 2018, and with electricity costing so much less vs gas on a per km basis, the 100,000km I've put on the car now has almost paid for itself in savings instead of having just thrown that depreciation away.

Let's do some math.

If I'd bought something comparable that burned between 7-8L/100km (7.5L/100km average) over those 100,000km I'd have burned , what, for the last 5 years, say $1.30/L?

$9750 in gas. Let's say $10,000. It wouldn't take much cold weather or crappy city driving where that average goes up to 9-10L/100km to push that up to $11,000.

Looking back through my energy tracker attached to my car charger for my car, my highest ever consumption year was 2840kwh in the year (2019), with others being between 2200 and 2400. 2020 was only 1877 the whole year, but yeah, Covid - didn't go out much/far of course.

So, say an average of 2400kwh a year at almost exclusively off peak rates, 7.6 cents per kwh (so 200kwh/month), that's $15/month in electricity costs for that same car. Yes, there are the delivery charges and such as part of our hydro bills, but you pay a lot of those whether you own an EV or not just as part of having electricity service in your home.

So, lets very generously say that the delivery fees blah blah doubles the cost to $30/month in electricity costs, which is probably way over exaggerating since our bills are rarely more than a few hundred bucks for both EV's plus the rest of our house.

So, 100,000km in 7 years of ownership now at $30/month = $2500 in electricity in 7. years of ownership, probably less..

So, $10,000 in gas vs $2500 in electricity. The car has saved me $7500 in the time period I've owned it. A little less than 3/4 of it's purchase price.

And this is a short range EV that rarely goes more than 50km or so a day and runs on gas almost exclusively. Yeah, I burned a few tankfulls of gas that have muddied the waters, but I've only changed the oil 3 times since I've owned it as it only needs to be done every 2 years as I've put so few gas miles on it.

Lets just say, 75% savings.

So, if we go back to the 2022 Ioniq we're looking at, at say $45K, and comparing it to a used 2022 Grand Cherokee (a vehicle many compare the Ioniq against size wise, inside and out) at also around $45K (seems about average looking at AutoTrader, $40 to $55K range), or a 2022 Ford Explorer at around the $40's (also a comparable size), and keep in mind the Jeep and Ford would average around 10L/100km, when purchase prices are basically the same, it's still stupid to not buy the EV.

Why would nobody want to save 75% on operating costs?

This is not even taking into consideration the lack of oil changes, brakes, etc.

The "They cost too much!" arguments many people try to make is typically when people compare a new EV like a top of the line Ioniq5 at $80K and try to compare it against a $25K econobox instead of 1:1 comparing it against the $80K Summit version of the Cherokee again. People never want to compare apples to apples when they're trying to make anti-EV arguments, but then they'll go buy a $100,000 pickup instead and be just fine with it.
 
I think I paid something like $11K for my 2011 Volt IIRC in Jan 2018, and with electricity costing so much less vs gas on a per km basis, the 100,000km I've put on the car now has almost paid for itself in savings instead of having just thrown that depreciation away.
I like that. In 2018 I could have bought a 2011 Cruze for $3000. 100k of gas would have cost around $9000.

A generous approximation for a Volt is 5km/kwh, so 20,000kwh at .149/hr is about $3000.

So, your TCO is $14k if you didn’t need gas. The same on a Cruse is $12k.

Pretty close. But a 2011 Volt is worth $6k max - so I could pay someone $4K to tow the Cruze out of my driveway and I’d be ahead of you.

Let's do some math.

If I'd bought something comparable that burned between 7-8L/100km (7.5L/100km average) over those 100,000km I'd have burned , what, for the last 5 years, say $1.30/L?

$9750 in gas. Let's say $10,000. It wouldn't take much cold weather or crappy city driving where that average goes up to 9-10L/100km to push that up to $11,000.
Nope. My Cruze goes 6.3 in the winter, 6.9 in the summer.
Looking back through my energy tracker attached to my car charger for my car, my highest ever consumption year was 2840kwh in the year (2019), with others being between 2200 and 2400. 2020 was only 1877 the whole year, but yeah, Covid - didn't go out much/far of course.

So, say an average of 2400kwh a year at almost exclusively off peak rates, 7.6 cents per kwh (so 200kwh/month), that's $15/month in electricity costs for that same car. Yes, there are the delivery charges and such as part of our hydro bills, but you pay a lot of those whether you own an EV or not just as part of having electricity service in your home.
Where do you get those numbers? You have a bunch of ancillary fees on your bill, I’ve never seen less than .14.
So, lets very generously say that the delivery fees blah blah doubles the cost to $30/month in electricity costs, which is probably way over exaggerating since our bills are rarely more than a few hundred bucks for both EV's plus the rest of our house.

So, 100,000km in 7 years of ownership now at $30/month = $2500 in electricity in 7. years of ownership, probably less..

So, $10,000 in gas vs $2500 in electricity. The car has saved me $7500 in the time period I've owned it. A little less than 3/4 of it's purchase price.

And this is a short range EV that rarely goes more than 50km or so a day and runs on gas almost exclusively. Yeah, I burned a few tankfulls of gas that have muddied the waters, but I've only changed the oil 3 times since I've owned it as it only needs to be done every 2 years as I've put so few gas miles on it.

Lets just say, 75% savings.

So, if we go back to the 2022 Ioniq we're looking at, at say $45K, and comparing it to a used 2022 Grand Cherokee (a vehicle many compare the Ioniq against size wise, inside and out) at also around $45K (seems about average looking at AutoTrader, $40 to $55K range), or a 2022 Ford Explorer at around the $40's (also a comparable size), and keep in mind the Jeep and Ford would average around 10L/100km, when purchase prices are basically the same, it's still stupid to not buy the EV.

Why would nobody want to save 75% on operating costs?

This is not even taking into consideration the lack of oil changes, brakes, etc.

The "They cost too much!" arguments many people try to make is typically when people compare a new EV like a top of the line Ioniq5 at $80K and try to compare it against a $25K econobox instead of 1:1 comparing it against the $80K Summit version of the Cherokee again. People never want to compare apples to apples when they're trying to make anti-EV arguments, but then they'll go buy a $100,000 pickup instead and be just fine with it.
 
Where do you get those numbers?

I have a whole home energy monitoring system. Every kwh that goes into my car is measured, including waste.

Here's my car last year.

1737338444884.jpeg

Much of the ancillary costs, as mentioned, are part of what you pay to just have service in your home, which you're going to have anyways of course. And if you re-read my numbers, they're generously accounted for.

And you must have the only gas car on the planet that uses less gas in the winter than in the summer. I've owned lots of them before our EV's and certainly never had one like that.

And 6 year old Chevy Cruzes were not $3000 in December of 2017 when I bought the Volt. I looked. I was going to pay around $7-8K for one with the ~100,000km my Volt had at the time. Heck, they're still selling for $3000 today, some more for a good low mileage option.
 
I have a whole home energy monitoring system. Every kwh that goes into my car is measured, including waste.

Here's my car last year.

View attachment 72074

Much of the ancillary costs, as mentioned, are part of what you pay to just have service in your home, which you're going to have anyways of course. And if you re-read my numbers, they're generously accounted for.

And you must have the only gas car on the planet that uses less gas in the winter than in the summer. I've owned lots of them before our EV's and certainly never had one like that.

And 6 year old Chevy Cruzes were not $3000 in December of 2017 when I bought the Volt. I looked. I was going to pay around $7-8K for one with the ~100,000km my Volt had at the time. Heck, they're still selling for $3000 today, some more for a good low mileage option.
In 2017 I bought my current Cruze new for $21k out the door. I bought my daughters 2011 at the same time, $3000 +tax at the same time.

Prices today are stupid, but getting back to normal.

Point is, in 2017 you’d have to put more than 200k km on a used Volt to be better off than buying a used Cruze.

And that’s about the only example where an EV would be close to an ICE option.
 
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the math based on the actual real world numbers and data I'm working with.
 
I’m shocked anyone would compare an Ioniq5 to a Jeep Grand Cherokee or even a Ford Explorer….

Just looking at the IONIQ one can see it’s so much smaller than either of those from the exterior.

I would compare it to a Jeep Compass or a Ford Escape / Edge.

The GC is so much larger…

 
Yeah I guess in hindsight those aren’t ideal comparisons but it’s ones I’ve seen.

Comparing against a Cherokee vs the grand Cherokee however, not a huge difference.

1737373072743.jpeg


The ioniq 5 is bigger than most people envision once you actually get up close.

Either way, compared against same year similar sized SUVs it’s price is certainly price comparable in the used market which is the ultimate point a lot of people are trying to get at with the comparisons
 
Yeah I guess in hindsight those aren’t ideal comparisons but it’s ones I’ve seen.

Comparing against a Cherokee vs the grand Cherokee however, not a huge difference.

View attachment 72075


The ioniq 5 is bigger than most people envision once you actually get up close.

Either way, compared against same year similar sized SUVs it’s price is certainly price comparable in the used market which is the ultimate point a lot of people are trying to get at with the comparisons
That’s a more fair comparison. But people are dumb and either don’t the know difference between the Cherokee or Grand Cherokee or they actively chose the larger to make themselves feel better about their decision.

My hard number is 40k as the upper upper limit. But I gotta love it.

My issue is used Hyundai anything isn’t ideal…but if I can find a great deal on a lease of one….apparently I have until the 31st with 9k of savings available.

I expect the savings to increase as rates continue to affect more and more people.
 
The $9K rebate is new vehicle only just so you know.

Our last Ioniq was a rock, never as much as a check engine light.
 
I have a whole home energy monitoring system. Every kwh that goes into my car is measured, including waste.

Here's my car last year.

View attachment 72074

Much of the ancillary costs, as mentioned, are part of what you pay to just have service in your home, which you're going to have anyways of course. And if you re-read my numbers, they're generously accounted for.
I'm assuming you live in Durham (Residential Rates - ERTH Power). If you had TOU pricing and used off peak exclusively, your actual off peak energy costs are 0.1376/kwh. Delivery, regulatory and HST are incremental based on kwh, you can't leave them out any more than you can leave HST and other taxes off the pump price of gasoline.

1737383147812.png

By my calculation, your energy would have cost you 56% more than your monitor suggests.
 
Yes, the monitor calculates on raw data and raw kWh’s based on the raw rate. That’s how they work.

But you need to go re read my original post. I basically doubled the calculated rate for my dollars and cents calculations which is generous since a lot of the fees we pay to just have service at our houses and delivery are not absolutely proportional.

If you don’t want to believe me for whatever reason as someone who has 4 EV’s to his name now, seriously, just google it and read some Canada / Ontario centric factual articles. I’m not the only one who understands and has run the numbers.

Here’s a few to start.



Here’s a Canadian Ioniq5 specific one comparing 1:1 to a new RAV4.


Comparing models 1:1 in the used market now yield even more favorable numbers.

Now, if one still insists on comparing a $40K used EV to a boring econobox I’m sure one can still find fault. But we don’t Compare BMW’s to a Fiat and expect fair comparisons either.
 
Yes, the monitor calculates on raw data and raw kWh’s based on the raw rate. That’s how they work.

But you need to go re read my original post. I basically doubled the calculated rate for my dollars and cents calculations which is generous since a lot of the fees we pay to just have service at our houses and delivery are not absolutely proportional.

If you don’t want to believe me for whatever reason as someone who has 4 EV’s to his name now, seriously, just google it and read some Canada / Ontario centric factual articles. I’m not the only one who understands and has run the numbers.

Here’s a few to start.



Here’s a Canadian Ioniq5 specific one comparing 1:1 to a new RAV4.


Comparing models 1:1 in the used market now yield even more favorable numbers.

Now, if one still insists on comparing a $40K used EV to a boring econobox I’m sure one can still find fault. But we don’t Compare BMW’s to a Fiat and expect fair comparisons either.
All those editorial comparisons need a lot to go right, a lot of iffs that need to fall the EV direction to make their conclusion.

For example, the Corporate Knights were $3k low on price, 60% off in electricity prices, somehow found .5% financing, and assumed those spending $65k on a primary new car will keep it 50% longer than most. All charging at home low cost TOU. Hmmm. A lot of bases to touch.

Hey, I get the economy’s and I know for some there is a cost savings. I’ve done the what if’s 11 ways from Sunday looking for some personal savings. For me and my 25000km/year travels — it doesn’t work yet. For me I’d need a $20000 used model 3 (or equivalent ) that could go 150,000km and have a residual value of $5000.
 
It's possible to find fault with any vehicle and comparison. People just go out of their way to find "what iffs" and everything of the sort when it comes to EV's.

It's important to remember we are not buying a $80K new EV vs a $50K equivalent vehicle in ICE flavour and expecting it to pay for itself somehow in savings. We are not at that point yet, and it's not happening. Since I'm not really all about the tree hugger aspect of EV's, that doesn't play into it at all.

I am however comparing $30K used EV's against $30K used ICE vehicles. At that point, there is absolutely no way to deny the savings.

Lets also keep in mind that the price of electricity doesn't change every night whilst the price of gas could spike to $1.75-$2.00/L again if some sheik trips and falls down somewhere, or a refinery goes offline for a few weeks unexpectedly, or a mouse farts in the woods, or whatever other little excuse big oil needs on any particular day.

And the "gas tank is full" every morning without standing in the rain/sleet/snow/wind (anyone gas up tonight or tomorrow night? Yeah, that'll suck!), and on top of everything else, they're fun as heck to drive. All that matters too.
 
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