Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Brian P said:
Interesting article. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a61100029/ionna-executives-ev-charging-network-interview-details/
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Funding is vague. Charging anxiety and battery anxiety are both drawbacks.

The glass jaw of the batteries is not being handled well. The fire issues are causing insurers to get antsy and passing that onto buyers. No industry is expanding on risk.

"There's a scratch on the battery case. You need a new $30,000 battery." and no one in officialdom will sign off and take personal responsibility for saying otherwise. It's like trying to get a M/C tire patched. Boogiemen everywhere with tales of collateral damage.

If there were accurate and believable* statistics on EV fires would they look that bad. Any worse than Ford Pintos?

Are the fires make/model specific? Posting the makes and models would get salespeople onto engineering department backs.

If the battery issues are minimal, a bit of joint benevolence on the part of the manufacurers could do well for sales. One battery issue in Buttsmoke Indiana gets posted on YouTube with a million views and the world sees a million battery disasters at $30K per poof.

In China BYD doesn't have the safety recognition of Tesla.

If Tesla shared its technology and fires became insignificant, would it enhance the market to the point that Tesla would actually benefit from the give away?

How many fires from people using cell phones while filing up with gas?

*believable is subjective. It's only believable if it matches what you already believe.

How many years before we're bailing out another third world indigenous group that lost their land or water to lithium mining?

Quoting the article,

It’s the value of what happens while the car is charging, the ambience, the amenities. After all, “restaurants don’t advertise, ‘You won’t get sick here,’ right?”

Travel is largely destination oriented these days. The journey is crammed highways, airports and airplanes, shared with rude self entitled boors.

Motorcycles are a rare exception. I lost an hour or more coming back from Arkansas because I ran into another motorcyclist and we spent the time in a McDonalds parking lot swapping stories. When's the last time you had that experience with your Camry?

Route 66 was known for its oddball motels, attractions and restaurants, not the asphalt. Route 66 too, in its prime, was endured more than enjoyed.

Back to basic electromath.

Filling a battery with energy is little different from filling a gas tank.

If your ICE needs 80 liters to go 500 KM it takes 5 minutes to pump at 16 liters per minute. Vroom.

If your EV needs 80 Kw to go 500 Km it could take the 80 Kw in 5 minutes, if the "Pump" and fuel tank could handle the flow rate. Wrrrrr.

80 Kw in 5 minutes is a flow rate of 960 kw per hour, 960,000 watts. Watts = Amps X volts so one amp at 960,000 volts or 960,000 amps at one volt or more commonly moderate numbers in between.

At 1000 volts amperage will drop to 960 amperes and will require a two conductor cable with a diameter bigger than a fire hose.

At 10,000 volts the cable conductor size is far smaller with the current reduced to 96 amperes but the insulation thickness goes way up to handle the voltage.

Maxing out a standard 100 ampere home panel at 80% gives you approximately 20 Kw per hour. Four houses will give you the 80 Kw but the charge time would be an hour. To get the time down to 5 minutes you would need power from 48 houses

There is no realistic way to "Fuel" an EV as fast as an ICE so EVs have to increase their kilometres per Kw.

Alternately travel has to become more like taking the scenic route, enjoying the recharge times with time spent enjoying the ambience. What ambience would appeal to the average person?
 
You're thinking like the owner of a petrol vehicle. (Not uncommon)

I took the Bolt to CSBK at Grand Bend last weekend. There and back slightly exceeds the car's range. Checked Plugshare (as charging infrastructure expands, the need to plan ahead will become less). There's a ChargePoint across the street from Timmies in Grand Bend. Great. Obviouly left home at 100%. Plugged in to the ChargePoint with just under half charge and walked across the street, I needed a break after 2.5 hours driving anyhow. When I got back to the car it was at 70% and I wasn't even done with my coffee. Good to go. Got home at 25%. Frustration factor 0. Time added to trip 0. (OK couple minutes checking Plugshare) Cost of fast-charge $3.80. Car did not catch fire. Bumpers are still attached. 😆

FYI there is only one charger installed there, but the foundation is there for another one.
 
Brian P said:
You're thinking like the owner of a petrol vehicle. (Not uncommon)

I took the Bolt to CSBK at Grand Bend last weekend. There and back slightly exceeds the car's range. Checked Plugshare (as charging infrastructure expands, the need to plan ahead will become less). There's a ChargePoint across the street from Timmies in Grand Bend. Great. Obviouly left home at 100%. Plugged in to the ChargePoint with just under half charge and walked across the street, I needed a break after 2.5 hours driving anyhow. When I got back to the car it was at 70% and I wasn't even done with my coffee. Good to go. Got home at 25%. Frustration factor 0. Time added to trip 0. (OK couple minutes checking Plugshare) Cost of fast-charge $3.80. Car did not catch fire. Bumpers are still attached. 😆

FYI there is only one charger installed there, but the foundation is there for another one.
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We can all cherry pick stories to support or criticize EV's. Last winter Chicago ran out of places to park the frozen ones etc.

The first battery drill I owned wouldn't drill through much more than softwood. The next one, one 1/4" hole in 1/8" steel. Now lots of power but I still have several corded ones. I've seen the battery jackhammers and they are only good for select jobs particularly where cost is not a big factor. I just replaced the line cord on my drill press. The rest is nearly 50 years old and working fine.

I have yet to see a cradle to grave explanation of where the rare materials come from and go to especially when our plastic recycling record is so pathetic, 5% recycled.

Asbestos made good insulation. Doctors recommended smoking. DDT was going to make the world bug free. Oxycontin was going to be a miracle but...

EV's show promise but we haven't seen the whole picture. Big business needs change. ICE lasting 20 years with a little maintenence isn't profitable. Hertz got suckered, along with pipe dreaming companies that didn't do their long term homework on charging.

Would big business lie to us?

Paint me a picture where everything works together, including costs and planet preservation. ICE is the devil we know. I'm not scrapping it for the devil we don't especially with the con games being played by big business and government.

Seventy years ago we were told we would all be flying to work in jets and flying cars. They were right except it's only a few in a billion.
 
Brian P said:
You're thinking like the owner of a petrol vehicle. (Not uncommon)

I took the Bolt to CSBK at Grand Bend last weekend. There and back slightly exceeds the car's range. Checked Plugshare (as charging infrastructure expands, the need to plan ahead will become less). There's a ChargePoint across the street from Timmies in Grand Bend. Great. Obviouly left home at 100%. Plugged in to the ChargePoint with just under half charge and walked across the street, I needed a break after 2.5 hours driving anyhow. When I got back to the car it was at 70% and I wasn't even done with my coffee. Good to go. Got home at 25%. Frustration factor 0. Time added to trip 0. (OK couple minutes checking Plugshare) Cost of fast-charge $3.80. Car did not catch fire. Bumpers are still attached. 😆

FYI there is only one charger installed there, but the foundation is there for another one.
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This 'issues' arise when;

The single charge point is broken or occupied by some nupty who wandered off for a few hrs
The multiple charge points are broken or occupied by some nupty who wandered off for a few hrs

I've taught at Sherway Mall a bunch this year, the Tesla Supercharges are directly in front of where we train. I've seen people almost come to blows (more then once) over leaving their cars for hours while they wander the mall and the lineup at the chargers was getting out of hand.

I've also seen lines at Fairview Mall which is down the street from my house. Now technically this could be no different from the occasional line at the pumps (usually right before an expected price gouge or drought), however I cannot remember a time where someone stuck a fuel pump in their car then walked across the street for 'coffee'. 😁
 
Evoex said:
This 'issues' arise when;

The single charge point is broken or occupied by some nupty who wandered off for a few hrs
The multiple charge points are broken or occupied by some nupty who wandered off for a few hrs

I've taught at Sherway Mall a bunch this year, the Tesla Supercharges are directly in front of where we train. I've seen people almost come to blows (more then once) over leaving their cars for hours while they wander the mall and the lineup at the chargers was getting out of hand.

I've also seen lines at Fairview Mall which is down the street from my house. Now technically this could be no different from the occasional line at the pumps (usually right before an expected price gouge or drought), however I cannot remember a time where someone stuck a fuel pump in their car then walked across the street for 'coffee'. 😁
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If you buy an ev and expect to rely on public charge points exclusively, that is a painful existence for all of those reasons. On the other hand, if you can charge at home 99% of the time with an occasional public charger, that is simpler for most than ice. You never have to fill up on the way to work. Pick the public charger wisely and turnover should be high (eg onroute stations where most will charge and then leave instead of shopping for hours).

On a slightly related note a buddy just switched from gas f150 to lightning. Payments on lightning equal monthly gas bill on the f150. He put in a 10kw solar array so charging the lightning is "free" (prepaid may be a more accurate description although he got jts 5K discount plus a 40k interest free loan).
 
GreyGhost said:
If you buy an ev and expect to rely on public charge points exclusively, that is a painful existence for all of those reasons. On the other hand, if you can charge at home 99% of the time with an occasional public charger, that is simpler for most than ice. You never have to fill up on the way to work. Pick the public charger wisely and turnover should be high (eg onroute stations where most will charge and then leave instead of shopping for hours).

On a slightly related note a buddy just switched from gas f150 to lightning. Payments on lightning equal monthly gas bill on the f150. He put in a 10kw solar array so charging the lightning is "free" (prepaid may be a more accurate description although he got jts 5K discount plus a 40k interest free loan).
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Onroute is busted and next available one is the shopping mall. Gonna be a rough day!
 
No question there's work to be done.

Charging stations need idle fees (many do). And those need to be punitive, to get people to move their cars when done. Ideally the charges at a fast-charger should ramp up when past (say) 90% to discourage people from going to 100% ( which takes forever). Heard of this being done, too.

"Free" fast charging included with the vehicle sounds like a blessing ... but in the big picture, it's a curse. Encourages people to hog chargers...

PlugShare tells you online whether a station is in use. I saw that the one in Grand Bend was in use the evening before. That's good ... it confirms that the station is working. All of the phone apps give you live updates on an active charging session. I could watch progress on mine while having breakfast.
 
Brian P said:
No question there's work to be done.

Charging stations need idle fees (many do). And those need to be punitive, to get people to move their cars when done. Ideally the charges at a fast-charger should ramp up when past (say) 90% to discourage people from going to 100% ( which takes forever). Heard of this being done, too.

"Free" fast charging included with the vehicle sounds like a blessing ... but in the big picture, it's a curse. Encourages people to hog chargers...

PlugShare tells you online whether a station is in use. I saw that the one in Grand Bend was in use the evening before. That's good ... it confirms that the station is working. All of the phone apps give you live updates on an active charging session. I could watch progress on mine while having breakfast.
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And all the work to be done is in a country run by a twit that thinks budgets balance themselves.

ICE has developed like a form of nanny state. Wherever you go there’s an Esso and a Timmies. Gas, coffee and a place to pee. No thought or consideration required.

EVs at this point can be problematic away from home. They can be problematic at home if home is a condo or rental.

A friend works for a major condo electrical contractor. They only put in a few charge points on new buildings. As GG points out inconsideration is a big hurdle. I see no indication of a friendlier tomorrow.
 
mimico_polak said:
Im surprised I haven’t seen one yet in the GTA
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There were two in Vaughan yesterday (including the one with dark tint). Florida and Mass plates. Appears connected to Mountain Pass Performance in Vaughan/QC. Not sure if the vehicles are living here with foreign plates or just passing through.

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