Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[Brian P]

Also, I've never bought a new car before. Anything to be aware of with regards to these electrics?

Lease them. Unless you are buying used, and get a deal like PrivatePilot did. The issue is that this is a fast-developing segment with a lot of new product coming out over the next few years which will all render the outgoing (i.e. current) stuff obsolete. The short-range models (e-Golf, Focus electric, the current Ioniq EV, the current Leaf) are the most prone to having their resale value destroyed (if it isn't already). So the two choices are to buy a used one that is "good enough" which has already taken its resale-value hit and not worry about it being worth nothing in the future, or lease a new one and not worry about the next big thing making it obsolete.

110 km per work day (20 days per month) = 2200 km per month. A normal car using 8 L/100 km will cost over $200 per month in fuel at today's prices. Granted, the electricity will cost something, but peanuts by comparison. That covers a good chunk of your lease payments, and this way you don't have to worry about "the next big thing" in EVs coming along and demolishing your resale value.

Only thing with leasing, is watch the total mileage that they allow on the lease. It can be a negotiating point up front. Do that.

 

[SunnY S]

The only pure Electric worthy of consideration is the Bolt (tesla 3 won't be here for a while)

Other than that Clarity is your best choice for PHEV. Similar price to Volt but light years better. Go see for yourself.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Fair argument on leasing, but it might be tough to negotiate in 30,000KM/year. A lease return with nearly 100,000KM on it, especially in the EV segment where people are kinda freaked out by mileage to begin with, is gonna be a hard resale for GM after the fact, and they know that.

I'd buy one in a hearbeat (honestly, a 3 year old Bolt with 100,000KM on it and a drastically lower price is EXACTLY what I'm hoping to start seeing in 2-3 years to replace one of our Volts at that point), but I'm in the minority, I know.

Heck, theres still a lot of people who consider even an ICE car with 100,000KM on it "near end of life".

 

[shanekingsley]

Thanks for all the numbers and other info - this is all great food for thought and a good starting point.

Fair argument on leasing, but it might be tough to negotiate in 30,000KM/year

If I ride my bike at least a few days a week, then it will surely help. Over 20k and less than 25k is realistic. Maybe.

 

[nobbie48]

Lease them. Unless you are buying used, and get a deal like PrivatePilot did. The issue is that this is a fast-developing segment with a lot of new product coming out over the next few years which will all render the outgoing (i.e. current) stuff obsolete. The short-range models (e-Golf, Focus electric, the current Ioniq EV, the current Leaf) are the most prone to having their resale value destroyed (if it isn't already). So the two choices are to buy a used one that is "good enough" which has already taken its resale-value hit and not worry about it being worth nothing in the future, or lease a new one and not worry about the next big thing making it obsolete.

110 km per work day (20 days per month) = 2200 km per month. A normal car using 8 L/100 km will cost over $200 per month in fuel at today's prices. Granted, the electricity will cost something, but peanuts by comparison. That covers a good chunk of your lease payments, and this way you don't have to worry about "the next big thing" in EVs coming along and demolishing your resale value.

Only thing with leasing, is watch the total mileage that they allow on the lease. It can be a negotiating point up front. Do that.

Do any leases have a residual value clauses where the value at turn in time can hit you with a surcharge? Years ago a friend got hit because the vehicle he was turning in had suddenly become unpopular or there was a glut and he had to make up for it.

 

[fastar1]

I don't think there will be an option for me to plug in at work.

Can you find out? It could impact your options significantly.

 

[GreyGhost]

Do any leases have a residual value clauses where the value at turn in time can hit you with a surcharge? Years ago a friend got hit because the vehicle he was turning in had suddenly become unpopular or there was a glut and he had to make up for it.

What a turd that clause was. I am sure if the car was popular, the dealership wouldn't have cut a cheque for returning a valuable vehicle. The whole point of leasing is in exchange for paying more, you transfer the risk to someone else.

 

[mxs]

^^ all good points - thanks!

I might have missed it .... is this the only family vehicle? In another words, can this be just commuter car with no long distance needs? This was ground zero question for me and I think everyone needs to answer it for themselves, because it makes a huge difference in the list of cars available on y our budget list.

For me, I knew I was buying city commuter and I knew I need 30kWh worth of "fuel" to not have to charge up every night (not that I cannot, rather to have a safety in range) or accommodate for possible capacity degradation over time. Knowing that, saved me money (quite a bit) and let me get into an actual brand new car right away, without months and months long waiting list. Don't fool yourself that you will be able to drive away within few days with a brand new car .... most EV's, you don't.

Start form the basic question first ...

 

[mxs]

Do any leases have a residual value clauses where the value at turn in time can hit you with a surcharge? Years ago a friend got hit because the vehicle he was turning in had suddenly become unpopular or there was a glut and he had to make up for it.

Not the one I signed ... I'd call it no-nonsense lease agreement. The only thing I have to watch is tire wear, everything else is part of a coverage I negotiated into my deal. Covers, dents, scratches, cracked windshield, worn out wiper blades ..... apparently returning a leased car nowadays is not fun times, since done by one company all car companies hire. And they like to ding you for everything .... so yes, coverage of some sort is essential, otherwise you will be possibly on hook for charges.

 

[shanekingsley]

This isn't the only car in our household. We will always have two cars and at least one bike. Our other car is a Civic which will likely be swapped for an SUV or something later this year or next.

I won't know about workplace charging capabilities until later this week. If I could charge at work it would be awesome!

 

[Mad Mike]

My work location is moving to Scarborough for the foreseeable future so that means my commute will now be minimum 110km/day from Mississauga.
I want to drive in the HOV lane, so any car that meet the green plate status is on the table.

I do not want this total expense to be over $40k and will happily buy used, although I read any rebates only apply to new vehicles.

I am leaning towards buying a hybrid, because of the length of my commute and it seems the Prius is the best bet for the money, but please offer up suggestions.
I don't care much for looks, but features are important.

Thoughts from those in the know?

I'm not an owner, but I've been researching and speaking with owners as I'm in a similar situation to you. For me, all roads lead to the Volt now, and the beginner Tesla in a few years. My main reasons for the VOLT are:
1) It looks like a car. I don't need to make a tree hugging statement with my car's styling so Japanese EVs are out.
2) Mileage. 60ish KM on electricity between feedings in the winter covers 99% of my trips without using gasoline.
3) Designed knowing we have winter. By all accounts it's 'winter engineering' is the best thought out today. Most comfort, least battery losses due to cold.
4) Longevity. There are plenty of happy reports from drivers passing 300,000miles (half a million KM!)
5) Range. If I went pure EV, I would need to rent cars for long trips. I can reply on the Volt's engine when I need to travel.

I'm planning to buy the minute Ontario kicks in their promised HST rebate which should take another $6K off the purchase price.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Shane, if you can even get access to just a plain 15A receptacle at your new place a second gen (maybe even a Later year first gen, if you’re considering used) Volt would perfectly suit your needs and you’d be basically within the electric range both to and from work without the need for any gas.

Even at just the slow 12A level 1 rate over an 8 hour day you’d recoup most or all of the battery usage from your morning commute, meaning you’d be leaving for home with a nearly full, or full battery again.

 

[Brian P]

Bolt battery disassembly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssU2mjiNi_Q

 

[shanekingsley]

Shane, if you can even get access to just a plain 15A receptacle at your new place....

Just found out that there is no charging at work. In the future yes, but just not right now.

I've been looking at newer used Volt's and they seem like a suitable fit for me.

I'll be keeping my eye on Autotrader and visit a few local dealerships. I need to get this sorted out by April, so not major rush.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Just found out that there is no charging at work. In the future yes, but just not right now.

I've been looking at newer used Volt's and they seem like a suitable fit for me.

I'll be keeping my eye on Autotrader and visit a few local dealerships. I need to get this sorted out by April, so not major rush.

Unfortunate re the charger, but it is what it is. A second gen Volt will get you most of the way to/from work on a charge in the summer - in the winter, not so much (one way perhaps, maybe part way home) but at 40+ MPG on the ICE, it's still going to be a win.

Hard part with the Gen2's is finding a deal right now. Since they only came out in 2016 there's not a lot on the market, and the ones that are tend to not be priced for a whole lot less than you can buy a brand new one for, after the $14K rebate - that's the issue, the depreciation on 1-2 year old cars is about equal the rebate at this point, so there's little incentive to buy a used Gen2 at this point, at least for another year or two.

But hey, certainly keep an eye out, you never know.

 

[shanekingsley]

Hard part with the Gen2's is finding a deal right now. Since they only came out in 2016 there's not a lot on the market, and the ones that are tend to not be priced for a whole lot less than you can buy a brand new one for, after the $14K rebate - that's the issue, the depreciation on 1-2 year old cars is about equal the rebate at this point, so there's little incentive to buy a used Gen2 at this point, at least for another year or two.

This is pretty much what I'm seeing. The ballpark for a 2017 is $30k, while it's about $50k (minus $14k rebate) for a brand new Premium Volt. Might as well get the brand new one with zero mileage then. Or a Bolt for that matter. Either way, it looks like I'll just get the 240v in the garage as it seems like a good long term investment.

Does anyone here with a newer Volt drive it on the highway a lot? I have a bit of a lead foot and wonder how less efficient it is at 120km/hr. My morning commute will be 90% highway before rush hour starts. Afternoon shouldn't be an issue as it will be mostly around 80-100km/hr I hope.

I took a good look at the Clarity. Nice car and spacious, however that car is hideous. What were they thinking with that rear wheel cover? I just don't get it. I mean I understand aerodynamics, but really?

edit: not sure if this link was already posted here, but over on RFD, there is a useful post or two on the subject: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/everything-about-evs-1515791/

 

[shanekingsley]

I'm planning to buy the minute Ontario kicks in their promised HST rebate which should take another $6K off the purchase price.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[PrivatePilot]

Does anyone here with a newer Volt drive it on the highway a lot? I have a bit of a lead foot and wonder how less efficient it is at 120km/hr. My morning commute will be 90% highway before rush hour starts. Afternoon shouldn't be an issue as it will be mostly around 80-100km/hr I hope.

Just like a gasser, higher speeds require more energy, so yes, you will lose range (and use more gas when on the engine) the faster you drive.

That said, 120 isn't crazy, but 130-140 like some people insist on driving is not going to be your friend in any EV. But, on a gen2, in ideal conditions, driving 120 vs 105 are likely to be the difference between being able to maybe make it 3/4 of the way home on electric alone vs only 1/4 of the way home before the engine starts.

If you can stick to 105-110 you'll be rewarded for it as energy consumption starts to rapidly increase above those speeds. Honestly, on a 50KM drive the difference in drive time between 105 and 120 is measured in mere minutes, so sometimes it just takes a change in mindset to realize it's not worth it.

Driving an EV almost certainly *will* change your driving style and attitudes - for me it becomes a bit of a game/goal to avoid burning gas whenever possible, so it does make you a way more efficient driver, thinking more about avoiding jackrabbit starts, maximizing regen while decelerating, timing traffic lights to avoid rushing from one red to the next, etc. As well, when I'm on the highway in the GTA I set the cruise control at 105-110, turn on the radio, and sit back and relax.

 

[Lunatic]

Driving an EV almost certainly *will* change your driving style and attitudes - for me it becomes a bit of a game/goal to avoid burning gas whenever possible, so it does make you a way more efficient driver, thinking more about avoiding jackrabbit starts, maximizing regen while decelerating, timing traffic lights to avoid rushing from one red to the next, etc. As well, when I'm on the highway in the GTA I set the cruise control at 105-110, turn on the radio, and sit back and relax.

This is where the Bolt and Volt are a bit different. I tend to drive more aggressively in the Bolt just because it's fun and the range is high enough to not really care about it. I was way more cautious in my truck and certainly my old CTS-V because it was costing so much for gas. The instant acceleration in the Bolt is addictive, and I often find myself creeping up to 130ish and realizing I have to reign it back in so I don't get into trouble.

 

[PrivatePilot]

This is where the Bolt and Volt are a bit different. I tend to drive more aggressively in the Bolt just because it's fun and the range is high enough to not really care about it. I was way more cautious in my truck and certainly my old CTS-V because it was costing so much for gas. The instant acceleration in the Bolt is addictive, and I often find myself creeping up to 130ish and realizing I have to reign it back in so I don't get into trouble.

Agreed 100% - if I knew that I had gobs of kilowatts to spare I would probably drive less efficiently (tromp on it on the onramps and cruise at a higher overall average speed) for trips in which I know I'm still only going to use 25-50% of the battery capacity anyways, but on our gen Volts where I know I'm operating with ~10kw, it's a different beast.

It reminds me of how I used to drive my old 1-Ton dually diesel - I knew that if I drove it like a grandma I could yield 15L/100KM (which given it was a 10,000LB empty truck, was actually pretty awesome), but any sort of agressiveness would have me up into the low 20's in a heartbeat.