The hyundai Ioniq plug in "starts at" $32 and Im sure it qualifies for 14g rebate. otherwise they have a hybrid model for much less.
if you can wait a bit longer, 2019 Honda Insight Hybrid will be here. looks way better than the Prius.
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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
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The hyundai Ioniq plug in "starts at" $32 and Im sure it qualifies for 14g rebate. otherwise they have a hybrid model for much less.
if you can wait a bit longer, 2019 Honda Insight Hybrid will be here. looks way better than the Prius.
Does prius qualify for green plates? It looks like only PHEV and BEV qualify so that might only be Prius Prime in Toyotaland.
I like that Ioniq. Didn't know the rebates were that large.
The car would always be parked outside - garage is for bikes only.
Would need to get a 240v installed - how much does that usually cost?
The more I read about the Prius, the less I like it. And yes, only the Prime qualifies for green plates.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/green-plates-eligible-vehicle.shtml
The car would always be parked outside - garage is for bikes only.
Would need to get a 240v installed - how much does that usually cost?
The more I read about the Prius, the less I like it. And yes, only the Prime qualifies for green plates.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/green-plates-eligible-vehicle.shtml
Green plates are only eligible on PHEV’s (Volt, Etc) or true BEV’s, Bolt, Tesla, Leaf, etc.
I wouldnt rule out the new Nissan Leaf either, has 42 more km range than Ioniq, and starts at $36 less $14 Inside and out of it looks much nicer than a Bolt but you do give up a bit of range.
For a 40A service you are probably $500 to $1000 (depends on where power comes from and how hard it is to get to where it needs to be). If you want a futureproof drop (currently utilized by Tesla Model S and X) you are looking at 100A circuit which would be much more expensive and potentially crazy expensive (if you had to upgrade the service into the house).
On a similar note, how are people dealing with plug in when the vehicle is back a bit from the house? My wife and I park staggered so we can get out without shuffling cars but that puts her ~20' from the house. Is there a weatherproof EVSE, are people putting it on a post in an enclosure, or are they just pulling the cable from the garage each time? I would like to run out near her car with conduit (so the cable isn't across the walkway) and I doubt that is achievable after the EVSE.
Can a new panel/circuit be split off from the electric meter, or must it be split off from the existing main panel?
My electric meter is mounted on the outside wall of my garage, so punching a hole through the garage wall and running some cable for a new panel/circuit in the garage would be very easy if it is allowed. My existing electrical panel is buried in the basement 30 feet away through a floor and several walls, so running new cable from it out to the garage would be quite difficult.
My electric meter is mounted on the outside wall of my garage, so punching a hole through the garage wall and running some cable for a new panel/circuit in the garage would be very easy if it is allowed. My existing electrical panel is buried in the basement 30 feet away through a floor and several walls, so running new cable from it out to the garage would be quite difficult.
Possibly, however you would get into a sub panel situation - ultimately that’s a question probably better asked to an electrician in the end
For the straight electrics, look for battery capacity 30 kWh or more.
If you foresee the need to do longer trips in the same vehicle, Volt or Ioniq plug-in, otherwise Bolt or the higher-range (newer) versions of a number of other vehicles. Marek's (mxs) Soul EV (about 30 kWh battery) appears to have a real world range of around 180 km which is theoretically enough, and it is decent to drive. The Bolt will cover 2 days of commuting easily (i.e. if you have a power failure or forget to plug it in at some point, you will still have some wiggle room). The Leaf would need to be one of the newer models. The longer-range version of the Ioniq electric isn't out until next year, same with the Leaf. The Golf EV and Focus electric and the old Leaf and the current Ioniq EV won't cut it - not enough range to give you any wiggle room.
Thanks for the suggestions so far.
As I have been reading, I have moved over to the Bolt, the Volt and the Honda Clarity as the ones that meet my needs. I've read a good bit on the Chevy's but there isn't as much on the Honda. All three are up for $14k rebates which should keep them all within my price point even with options added.
I think I'll head over to the auto show and get a good look to compare.
As I have been reading, I have moved over to the Bolt, the Volt and the Honda Clarity as the ones that meet my needs. I've read a good bit on the Chevy's but there isn't as much on the Honda. All three are up for $14k rebates which should keep them all within my price point even with options added.
I think I'll head over to the auto show and get a good look to compare.
The Clarity is Honda's answer to the Chevy Volt. The Volt has been around for a few years and most kinks have been worked out. It comes down to what you fit in the best. The Clarity promises the same range on electric and has the gas range extender so you're not left looking for a plug. The back seats are the biggest difference between Clarity and Volt. I personally love the Volt but it's a 4 door coupe. Anyone over 6' in the backseat will hate you. This is where the Honda wins.
For trunk space, the Volt beats the Honda hands down.
I've had 2 friends buy Volts in the last 3 weeks and they're both very happy.
The Bolt is also very cool but not as roomy as I'd like. That's personal preference. Also there's a bit of a wait for a Bolt.
Just to clarify, are you talking 110KM each way, or 110KM total?
If you're taking 110KM total then you're not going to accomplish it entirely on battery alone on something like a Volt (well, perhaps in *ideal* conditions you might just barely in a 2017/2018, but on average you're still going to use a bit of gas every day) but you still have the versatility that the range extender offers.
If a pure BEV like the Bolt is in the budget then that'll certainly get you to/from work (even in the dead of winter) with plenty of range to spare.
A few of the offerings with the ~200KM range, well, I'd be very careful. 200KM rated EV's aren't going to yield 200KM in the winter, so if they shrink to 120-140KM in the depth of February with a 110KM return commute...that could get rather uncomfortable..unless you can get access to a plug at work to pickup some electrons through the day to pickup that extra bit of buffer.
Just being realistic.
A high kwh BEV like the Bolt however, you'll be laughing, and yeah, no more gas.
If you're taking 110KM total then you're not going to accomplish it entirely on battery alone on something like a Volt (well, perhaps in *ideal* conditions you might just barely in a 2017/2018, but on average you're still going to use a bit of gas every day) but you still have the versatility that the range extender offers.
If a pure BEV like the Bolt is in the budget then that'll certainly get you to/from work (even in the dead of winter) with plenty of range to spare.
A few of the offerings with the ~200KM range, well, I'd be very careful. 200KM rated EV's aren't going to yield 200KM in the winter, so if they shrink to 120-140KM in the depth of February with a 110KM return commute...that could get rather uncomfortable..unless you can get access to a plug at work to pickup some electrons through the day to pickup that extra bit of buffer.
Just being realistic.
A high kwh BEV like the Bolt however, you'll be laughing, and yeah, no more gas.
When I was at the EV Discovery Center in Toronto a few weeks ago I actually rode in the back of a Bolt for our test drive - I was quite surprised exactly how spacious and generally comfortable it was back there, honest. Admittedly, yes, WAY better than our Volt. I've sat in the back, and yes, it's quite snug for anyone 6' or over like myself.
Thanks.
Commute is about 55km each way all long the 403 and 401. I used to commute about 30km each way all long the QEW/Gardiner and rode my bike to work every day which was fine. New job will be more demanding and riding home in heavy traffic, double the distance, with the sun in my eyes while not being able to take the HOV lanes on the 403 will be totally different. I anticipate riding and driving each 50% of the time.
I'm about 6' tall and don't expect too many tall rear seated passengers.
I don't think there will be an option for me to plug in at work.
With the rebates, the Bolt will come in around the upper end of what I want to spend and the other two will definitely be under.
Commute is about 55km each way all long the 403 and 401. I used to commute about 30km each way all long the QEW/Gardiner and rode my bike to work every day which was fine. New job will be more demanding and riding home in heavy traffic, double the distance, with the sun in my eyes while not being able to take the HOV lanes on the 403 will be totally different. I anticipate riding and driving each 50% of the time.
I'm about 6' tall and don't expect too many tall rear seated passengers.
I don't think there will be an option for me to plug in at work.
With the rebates, the Bolt will come in around the upper end of what I want to spend and the other two will definitely be under.
Also, I've never bought a new car before. Anything to be aware of with regards to these electrics?
It'd be worth sitting down and figuring out your average daily costs of operation between a BEV, a PHEV, and a hybrid then and see what comes out on top.
For 110KM even a PHEV will beat a hybrid, but where's the break even point based on purchase price. A full BEV is dirt cheap to operate comparatively, but again, it's always useful to know where the break even point is.
If "Wants" vs "Needs" come into play a little as well (IE, you WANT to go electric) then that can outweigh things somewhat as well...and also, how long are you going to keep it for? There's a strong argument for spending the extra money on something like a Bolt if you're going to keep it for a decade as it WILL pay for itself eventually with the sort of mileage you're talking, especially when you start doing your weekend running around on all electric as well, etc etc. Just your commute alone will be ~25,000KM/year, and add on 5000-8000KM or so of leisure use and the yearly operational costs between a gas vs electric are going to be significant.
Keep in mind maintenance costs as well. A regular hybrid has regular service costs very similar to a regular car, whereas a Volt with only occasional engine use can go up to 2 years between oil changes, for example. On a Bolt, the recommended maintenance in the first 5 years is literally cabin air filter replacement, and tire rotations.
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Big benefit of buying new is pretty much every PHEV/BEV on the market right now come with excellent electric drivetrain specific warranties. The GM Voltec/Boltec warranty for example is 8 years/160,000KM. Even my 2011 is still under the "end to end" warranty on the electric drivetrain, including the battery.
^^ all good points - thanks!
Used might be an option for you then Shane, take a look as I've seen more Volts around in the last few months, but haven't really looked into it in detail as I bought mine used.
For comparison:
I now commute from Hurontario / Dundas to Yonge / Shepard (403/401 every day) HOV only for about 2-3km from Hurontario to 401 Express
Gen 1 Volt
Commute: 40km each way
Full battery range at start of commute: approx 60km in winter, 72km in summer
Arrive at work: 15km left over in winter / 25km left over in summer
Arrive at home: 20km left over in winter / 30-40km left over in summer (slower traffic is great for range in Volt)
Total distance driven since I bought it: 11,000km
Total gas used: 115L
Purchase: $18k
I have an L2 charger at work, and at home
Technically the only time I've used the motor is to heat up the car during those ridiculously cold days, and then it's like 1-2L max/trip
The bulk of the 115L I've used is to get to the cottage as there's no way it'll make it there on EV so I just turn on the motor once I hit highway cruising speed.
Approx consumption on highway: 4.5-5.5L/100km in cold weather, about 1L/100km less in summer.
EDIT#1: If I didn't have the free L2 charger at work, I wouldn't have bothered. The premium for the Volt over something like a Fit/Yaris etc, isn't worth it to me. I paid 18k for my car, whereas I could've probably snapped up a Civic/Yaris/Fit for less than 13k or so and newer with fewer kilometres. It would take a lot of kms to make up that 5k difference. This way the Volt is used only for commute, and sits parked for most of the weekend as we use my wife's car with baby and all the stuff we transport.
Volt backseat isn't too bad, but trunk space is great. I threw in a full size spare in the trunk so there's minimal space now, but keep in mind the car doesn't come with a spare.
EDIT#2: Hydro bill has gone up approx $20-30/month since I charge always after 7pm to take advantage of 50% cheaper hydro.
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Some back-of-a-napkin calculation for 30,000KM's a year between a Prius and a Bolt are roughly this:
Prius, at an average of 5.0L/100KM will burn roughly 6L/ day in gas (at $1.20, that's $7.20/day), or 1500L of gas per year. Again, using $1.20/L as an average cost over that period and you're talking $1800 in gas per year.
A Bolt will use about 1kwh for every 6.5KM, give or take maybe 1KM - remember, stop and go / heavy traffic is where an EV excels vs a gas car as it's hands down WAY more efficient. It'll use less in summer, and more in the winter... But, lets use 6.5KM as an average. So, your daily commute will use about 17KWH. At our off peak $0.065/kwh electricity rate, that comes out to $1.10 in electricity. Over your 30,000KM year, electricity (about 4600KWH) would cost you $300.
So, every day you save a little more than $6.00 with a yearly operational cost of about $1500 LESS than a Prius.
This is where the determination on how long you want to keep it comes to light. If you're going to keep it for 10 years, then you have a potential savings of $15,000 in operational costs alone, before you take into consideration the lack of scheduled maintenace as well (oil changes etc) that a more traditional ICE vehicle like a Prius will need over that time. A cursory glance shows the Prius will need 2 oil changes a year with your mileage, so at $50/each (roughly) that's another $100 a year, or $1000 over the 10 years of ownership.
Prius, at an average of 5.0L/100KM will burn roughly 6L/ day in gas (at $1.20, that's $7.20/day), or 1500L of gas per year. Again, using $1.20/L as an average cost over that period and you're talking $1800 in gas per year.
A Bolt will use about 1kwh for every 6.5KM, give or take maybe 1KM - remember, stop and go / heavy traffic is where an EV excels vs a gas car as it's hands down WAY more efficient. It'll use less in summer, and more in the winter... But, lets use 6.5KM as an average. So, your daily commute will use about 17KWH. At our off peak $0.065/kwh electricity rate, that comes out to $1.10 in electricity. Over your 30,000KM year, electricity (about 4600KWH) would cost you $300.
So, every day you save a little more than $6.00 with a yearly operational cost of about $1500 LESS than a Prius.
This is where the determination on how long you want to keep it comes to light. If you're going to keep it for 10 years, then you have a potential savings of $15,000 in operational costs alone, before you take into consideration the lack of scheduled maintenace as well (oil changes etc) that a more traditional ICE vehicle like a Prius will need over that time. A cursory glance shows the Prius will need 2 oil changes a year with your mileage, so at $50/each (roughly) that's another $100 a year, or $1000 over the 10 years of ownership.
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