Always knew it - Toronto police cash cow

[mmmnaked]

studies have proven time and again, people will not just arbitrarily drive faster and faster if the limits continue to rise. People generally drive as fast as they safely feel they can comfortably drive on that particular road. The studies show that when the speed limits are increased, the average speed of cars doesn't increase by very much, often none at all.

Your thinking that everyone just drives 20 over the limit, regardless of what that limit is, is mistaken.

^ oilygeek doesn't get that part

Sometimes facts just get in the way of a good troll.

 

[oilycreek]

Wrong. Laws can be changed. But more importantly, laws are artificial constructs that are forced upon us by people who claim exclusive use of violence, confinement and deadly force. Much of this "work" is done without the consent of many of the public (and in some cases, virtually none of the public). You apparently see those people as "good."



Yeah, but that's the thing... they DON'T. And they don't follow the laws, either.



This is what they call a straw man argument... throw something true in to distract from the lie. Sure they get paid to do a job and they have bosses - but none of the other things they do, especially when they break the law - WHETHER IN THE COURSE OF DUTY OR NOT - justifies your statement, and the idea that they do their jobs is also not entirely true. Again, laws are artificial constructs that are forced on the population with the use of violence. Some laws make sense and there is a clear harm to defend the public from - others are just ways for the forces to make money that "justifies" their salaries. You apparently are a black and white thinker, so there's something to chew on.

The statement that laws are artificial constructs forced I the people is so stupid it amazes me you can even tie your shoes in the morning. Without laws what do we have, complete anarchy, murder rates unfathomable. We would not, could not exist without laws, and any statement otherwise is just retarded. Go on cry some more about how the cops hold you back. IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR LAWS THEN GET THE **** OUT, It's a very simple concept.

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[oilycreek]

^ oilygeek doesn't get that part

Sometimes facts just get in the way of a good troll.

Because I disagree with you, I'm a troll, hmmm, I wonder who's really the troll here. Your arguments are always weak, when you're wrong you resort to calling me a troll, to be honest your a waste of my time and talent.

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[mmmnaked]

Can't handle the truth

 

[daught]

You don't like the laws, you know you will never change them, so your best option is move some where you'll be happy, but some how I doubt that place exist any where. You guys always blame the police for doing their job. I guess you guys don't do your jobs properly. It's like shooting the messenger, they are paid to do a job, so they do it, just like everyone else they have a boss that tells them what to do. I couldn't imagine not giving 100% at my job every day.

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Huh? I never said I don't like the laws. I was actually complaining that they weren't enforcing them or following them.

I have a problem with zealous HTA enforcement while real criminals get away or a slap on the wrist at most. Look at all the bike thefts for example. Giving me a tickets for 20 over on the highway, where it has been proven that the speed limit is too low, is not doing anyone a service.

 

[oilycreek]

This is the typical losing argument. The main point of the thread is speed limits kept artificially low, and it's the cops fault. Then when you're points are wrong, let's bring up totally irreverent arguments, like the police breaking laws, an ex attorney General killing someone with his car. Argue the main point, that the police are idiots for doing their job. If I had someone working for me that thought someone doing their job properly is an idiot, they wouldn't be working for me very long.

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[oilycreek]

Huh? I never said I don't like the laws. I was actually complaining that they weren't enforcing them or following them.

I have a problem with zealous HTA enforcement while real criminals get away or a slap on the wrist at most. Look at all the bike thefts for example. Giving me a tickets for 20 over on the highway, where it has been proven that the speed limit is too low, is not doing anyone a service.

The problem with bike thefts it's, by time you call the cops, they come and take a report the bike is already in pieces, and if they didn't care, why do we hear of chop shops being busted, because they do their job, investigate, get good evidence and then raid them. The reason I don't believe they should raise the limits is simple, there was a rash of accidents where innocent people were being killed, because some aholes decided to race each other on city streets, so they did what they thought was appropriate, and that's bringing in a law that punished people for excessive speed, by raising limits, you effectively raise the limit at which that laws is enforced to a more dangerous level. If they raised the speed limits to 120 but dropped the street racing speed to 30 then I wouldn't have a problem with it. That law may be flawed, but it works. I used to ride/drive like an idiot, but not once did I exceed the speed limit by 50 after that law came into effect, in fact I never came close to going 50 over, and it's not just me,I know or have talked to people who say the same thing.

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[BuckWild]

I couldn't agree more. If they break the law, they should pay a penalty, but the same penalty everyone pays, not double. I never once claimed all cops are good last abiding people, but like every profession there are bad Apple's, and your can't group all cops on with the bad ones, there are more good books then bad cops. I've had to deal with both types, but I don't blame the good ones because of the bad ones.

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Agreed but with an exception. They are the ones that chose that job to be the upstanding people to uphold and follow the laws therefore with great power comes great responsibility. So, when they have a bad apple then they should give theme severe punishment to demonstrate to the tax payers and regular citizens that this will not be tolerated. It reduces the bad apples.

 

[daught]

The problem with bike thefts it's, by time you call the cops, they come and take a report the bike is already in pieces, and if they didn't care, why do we hear of chop shops being busted, because they do their job, investigate, get good evidence and then raid them. The reason I don't believe they should raise the limits is simple, there was a rash of accidents where innocent people were being killed, because some aholes decided to race each other on city streets, so they did what they thought was appropriate, and that's bringing in a law that punished people for excessive speed, by raising limits, you effectively raise the limit at which that laws is enforced to a more dangerous level. If they raised the speed limits to 120 but dropped the street racing speed to 30 then I wouldn't have a problem with it. That law may be flawed, but it works. I used to ride/drive like an idiot, but not once did I exceed the speed limit by 50 after that law came into effect, in fact I never came close to going 50 over, and it's not just me,I know or have talked to people who say the same thing.

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Traffic is actively enforced. A lot of resources are dedicated to traps and blitzzes. Why don't they set up theft traps?

 

[Macs]

Agreed but with an exception. They are the ones that chose that job to be the upstanding people to uphold and follow the laws therefore with great power comes great responsibility. So, when they have a bad apple then they should give theme severe punishment to demonstrate to the tax payers and regular citizens that this will not be tolerated. It reduces the bad apples.

Well said. When one is put in a position of power and one abuses said power, the punishment should reflect the crime. The crime isn't just the law the cop broke, the crime is losing the public's trust and cooperation for all Police. A North American example of a police force the public trusts and respects is Chicago PD, if you spend some time there very few people have bad things to say about the cops.

 

[Sinz]

A lot of cops probably got beat up, bullied in school so now that they have a gun & a badge they feel more powerful to citizens, some are really cool, nice guys that will let you off if you broke the law but the others are dirty, crooked & paid off pieces of **** that think they are god!

 

[oilycreek]

Agreed but with an exception. They are the ones that chose that job to be the upstanding people to uphold and follow the laws therefore with great power comes great responsibility. So, when they have a bad apple then they should give theme severe punishment to demonstrate to the tax payers and regular citizens that this will not be tolerated. It reduces the bad apples.

What you are forgetting is, cops are still regular citizens, and deserve to be treated as such, anything else is discrimination, something we are all against. They show to us it won't be tolerated by charging and convicting them.

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[oilycreek]

A lot of cops probably got beat up, bullied in school so now that they have a gun & a badge they feel more powerful to citizens, some are really cool, nice guys that will let you off if you broke the law but the others are dirty, crooked & paid off pieces of **** that think they are god!

So when do you get your badge then.

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[omnivore]

Traffic is actively enforced. A lot of resources are dedicated to traps and blitzzes. Why don't they set up theft traps?

Because our legal system knows it's far more lucrative to ticket hundreds of motorists on their way to work or church, than it is to incarcerate real crimininals.

Drivers are generally responsible people with jobs and families etc, so most just roll over and pay the tickets.

Real criminals however, often have little or nothing to loose. So there would be costs incurred catching them, then costs to keep them in jail, and costs to provide them with free legal representation, then costs to the tune of $500/day to keep each one jailed.

When given the choice of chasing motorists or criminals, its often the path of least resistance that is chosen.

 

[油井緋色]

studies have proven time and again, people will not just arbitrarily drive faster and faster if the limits continue to rise. People generally drive as fast as they safely feel they can comfortably drive on that particular road. The studies show that when the speed limits are increased, the average speed of cars doesn't increase by very much, often none at all.

Your thinking that everyone just drives 20 over the limit, regardless of what that limit is, is mistaken.

Add him to ignore. I already hinted at these studies in page one. Guy clearly just wants to piss people off.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

You know what really pisses me off? 400 series highways with posted speed limits of 90km/h.

410 north of Mayfield drops to 90km/h.. uh why??

Britannia road in Mississauga, between Creditview and Hurontario was always 80km/h. Since they widened it and created an additional lane.. the speed limit is now 70km/h.

This is effed up.

When I moved to Brampton Dixie Rd. was a 50 MPH, 2 lane cattle track. Now it's 4 lanes (6 lanes in places) and has a limit of 60-70 kmh.

 

[Shaman]

The statement that laws are artificial constructs forced I the people is so stupid it amazes me you can even tie your shoes in the morning.

What do YOU think they are? You think we're born into this world with a full set of provincial laws chiseled into our DNA? Nope. We're born into this world free creatures without religion...... and then indoctrinated into this social prison that the majority (and you, with a vengeance) are too afraid to try and change.

Without laws what do we have, complete anarchy, murder rates unfathomable.

Wrong. But you're taking it to extremes - I did not say that there should be no laws, and firmly believe that both law and enforcement are necessary - but not in the form they've taken. However, laws are most definitely artificial constructs, regardless of whether they're good laws or bad laws. Apparently you're not going to pass any MENSA tests.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR LAWS THEN GET THE **** OUT, It's a very simple concept.

I was born here. My great, great, great grandparents were born here. I'm old generation United Empire Loyalist blood. Get stuffed.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Frequently laws simply codify societal norms, that have evolved in order to keep us from blowing our stacks and murdering each other. I don't know that I would call those 'artificial constructs.'

 

[Shaman]

Frequently laws simply codify societal norms, that have evolved in order to keep us from blowing our stacks and murdering each other. I don't know that I would call those 'artificial constructs.'

It's absolutely what they are. Nobody said they're not useful or important, many of them definitely are. But as a way of proving to yourself how artificial they are, think of how many guilty people have gone free on technicalities brought on by poor wording of the statutes.

 

[oilycreek]

What do YOU think they are? You think we're born into this world with a full set of provincial laws chiseled into our DNA? Nope. We're born into this world free creatures without religion...... and then indoctrinated into this social prison that the majority (and you, with a vengeance) are too afraid to try and change.



Wrong. But you're taking it to extremes - I did not say that there should be no laws, and firmly believe that both law and enforcement are necessary - but not in the form they've taken. However, laws are most definitely artificial constructs, regardless of whether they're good laws or bad laws. Apparently you're not going to pass any MENSA tests.




I was born here. My great, great, great grandparents were born here. I'm old generation United Empire Loyalist blood. Get stuffed.

Where did I say you weren't born here. I said if you don't like our laws get out, which means , move some where that has laws which meet your approval. That could be any where in Canada, North America,or the world.

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