900,000 students coming in…

[mimico_polak]

Besides Colleges and Rentals/Real Estate - what other industries could be significantly impacted by the loss of these international students?

Any and all industries that rely on cheap labour as a source of their revenue generation.

Fast food, gig economy, retail, etc etc.

I have no issue with legit students. I have issue with ‘students’ coming here, and using loopholes to gain access to a PR.

 

[justride]

They speak the language, have money, are educated, and are young. Why wouldn't Canada want them? Who is going to look after the baby boomers? My co-worker complains about the international students filling up the bus and talking too much!

 

[FullMotoJacket]

They speak the language, have money, are educated, and are young. Why wouldn't Canada want them?

Why are they coming in as "students" if they're already educated?

Why wouldn't Canada want them?

Maybe because it leaves a sour taste in the mouth of Canadians when people are openly mocking them while they blatantly game the $ystem?

 

[mimico_polak]

They speak the language, have money, are educated, and are young. Why wouldn't Canada want them? Who is going to look after the baby boomers? My co-worker complains about the international students filling up the bus and talking too much!

They don’t have money, they’re not educated, and many aren’t young.

Sure some are, but many are not and are utilizing the system through fraudulent means to gain the PR for which they would be ineligible otherwise.

Ask me how many? No clue, but when you can stack them 4-6 in a room in bunk beds, it’s a shame but is a reality.

These are not students, they are cheaters. And while I’m sure some were cheated to come here through promises by others, I’d say they all knew they were doing it fraudulently.

 

[Mad Mike]

Unintended consequences here we go...friend's husband just got notified his job is over at one of the big colleges as the new student cap directly affects his job.

Less students for the college = less work for him = loss of job next week.

Anyone working at a diploma mill would know their livelihood is based on gaming the system.

They also know if the game shuts down…

 

[FullMotoJacket]

They also know if the game shuts down…

 

[Mad Mike]

This isn’t just degree mills. 40% of UK universities are in financial trouble. Many of the big Canadian universities are in trouble, especially in Ontario. If government, provincial or otherwise doesn’t look after education then there’s big knock on effects. In Canada, especially Ontario (and elsewhere) we needed to seek alternative funding sources, hence international students.

Education is an investment in the future and the payback can be too slow for populist politicians to want to deal with.

Perhaps universities need to find a better business model better businesses, and students need to pay more of the freight.

Take some time to compare a state funded university like UCLA to Queens, they have similar operating budgets yet UCLA serves 50% more students.

I know an apples to apples comparison is difficult, but if you do a general comparison, you’ll find US state universities are considerably better bang for the buck compares to their Canadian counterparts.

 

[jc100]

Perhaps universities need to find a better business model better businesses, and students need to pay more of the freight.

Take some time to compare a state funded university like UCLA to Queens, they have similar operating budgets yet UCLA serves 50% more students.

I know an apples to apples comparison is difficult, but if you do a general comparison, you’ll find US state universities are considerably better bang for the buck compares to their Canadian counterparts.

State funded? California has a GDP bigger than many countries. I’d be very surprised if the funding models for those two were the same or even within the same league. Scholarly funding bodies in the US dole out much much more money for grants for research too and that cannot be overlooked. Also add in the tuition fees that are much much higher than Canada’s. Not an equal comparison at all.

The UK universities turned to industrial funding for a while when they were starved of funds. Guess what that does…it stops innovation as companies aren’t generally interested in funding blue sky ideas. You need investment from government. Anything else is short sighted.

 

[justride]

Canadian education is more likely to be recognized by potential employers in Canada. I am not sure but don't the students pay for the tuition, rent, flights, transportation, food "and sometimes" everything themselves? I don't care if there are 4 students in 1 bedroom, that's on them to figure out. Students coming over is not going to stop. Too much money being made.
More important, would be protecting decent-paying jobs. I feel that international students should be protected as same as Canadians regarding employment rights to avoid the "race to the bottom"

 

[jc100]

Canadian education is more likely to be recognized by potential employers in Canada. I am not sure but don't the students pay for the tuition, rent, flights, transportation, food "and sometimes" everything themselves? I don't care if there are 4 students in 1 bedroom, that's on them to figure out. Students coming over is not going to stop. Too much money being made.
More important, would be protecting decent-paying jobs. I feel that international students should be protected as same as Canadians regarding employment rights to avoid the "race to the bottom"

It’s not really the student part that’s upsetting people I think..it’s the loophole part that’s sometimes (not always) being exploited under the cover of being a student

 

[Mad Mike]

What’s useful education? Critical thinking skills, communication skills, presentation skills, time management skills aren’t really taught but they are acquired as part of most university/college courses and those translate into real life everyday work skills.

I get that “basket weaving 101” is a pretty tough one to argue (I’m not going to) but there’s,plenty of arts based courses that would still let students acquire these skills.

Is every student going to have these skills as part of this investment? No..because like all investments there’s some element of risk (a risk of time-wasters or incapable students) but overall the odds are that it’s a positive effect for the country to have an educated workforce and to provide for homegrown technology advances and development and implementation.

One might argue that those soft skills you speak of are also taught and learned in the trades and schools of hard knocks.

Id argue those, like most skills, are better learned and refined through experiential learning than in study hall.

Public education serves the needs of the country. I don’t need another Arts major critical thinker skilled to make artisan coffee and debate campus occupation theorey, I need a couple of machinists, a welder and someone to maintain a multi million investment.

 

[nobbie48]

They don’t have money, they’re not educated, and many aren’t young.

Sure some are, but many are not and are utilizing the system through fraudulent means to gain the PR for which they would be ineligible otherwise.

Ask me how many? No clue, but when you can stack them 4-6 in a room in bunk beds, it’s a shame but is a reality.

These are not students, they are cheaters. And while I’m sure some were cheated to come here through promises by others, I’d say they all knew they were doing it fraudulently.

Sadly, with all gambles the more you lose of what you have, the harder you try to win it back. Reality is ignored.

It doesn't work at casinos either.

 

[Mad Mike]

Ubereats/skipthedishes.

Walmart, Petrocan, Trucking, Liberal Party of Canada?

 

[nobbie48]

Anyone working at a diploma mill would know their livelihood is based on gaming the system.

They also know if the game shuts down…

I'm sure there were some good teachers and valid subjects but when the ship sinks everyone is left treading water. Hopefully the good ones get rescued.

 

[jc100]

One might argue that those soft skills you speak of are also taught and learned in the trades and schools of hard knocks.

Id argue those, like most skills, are better learned and refined through experiential learning than in study hall.

Public education serves the needs of the country. I don’t need another Arts major critical thinker skilled to make artisan coffee and debate campus occupation theorey, I need a couple of machinists, a welder and someone to maintain a multi million investment.

Short sighted..the investment you speak of may have likely been facilitated by a politician with a history degree. Also, those skills are experiential in the study halls.

Public education educates the public. It doesn’t serve the needs of the country. Educated people, partly from public education, help serve those needs.

 

[Mad Mike]

State funded? California has a GDP bigger than many countries. I’d be very surprised if the funding models for those two were the same or even within the same league. Scholarly funding bodies in the US dole out much much more money for grants for research too and that cannot be overlooked. Also add in the tuition fees that are much much higher than Canada’s. Not an equal comparison at all.

The UK universities turned to industrial funding for a while when they were starved of funds. Guess what that does…it stops innovation as companies aren’t generally interested in funding blue sky ideas. You need investment from government. Anything else is short sighted.

What does GDP have to do with a comparison on funding? As for research grants, in the US those are typically competitive endeavours that universities can financially benefit from.

As for tuition, yes for private universities, an no for exceptional students and many state universities.

As I said before, you can’t do apples to apples comparisons, but you can compare operating costs, outcomes for students, and to some degree the benefits to society.

 

[nobbie48]

Perhaps universities need to find a better business model better businesses, and students need to pay more of the freight.

Take some time to compare a state funded university like UCLA to Queens, they have similar operating budgets yet UCLA serves 50% more students.

I know an apples to apples comparison is difficult, but if you do a general comparison, you’ll find US state universities are considerably better bang for the buck compares to their Canadian counterparts.

The first sign of death is to stop growing. That goes for us, publicly traded companies and trees. Does it have to apply to universities as well?

Let the universities be the Rolls Royce places of learning if one can afford them. A step down are the M-Bs followed by Acura and Camry. A Chevy will deliver pizza.

Roughly one American in a million is an NBA player, needing a PhD in dunks. The other 99% need different jobs.

Tenure: I know a PhD who desperately wanted to be a full time prof but was only getting part time work.

She wanted the security of tenure and was annoyed that profs with tenure didn't want to open the barn door and leave, making room for her with the door again closing.

 

[Mad Mike]

Short sighted..the investment you speak of may have likely been facilitated by a politician with a history degree. Also, those skills are experiential in the study halls.

Public education educates the public. It doesn’t serve the needs of the country. Educated people, partly from public education, help serve those needs.

All public institutions are in service of the country. And universities do not have a monopoly on educating the public.

I know as many successful people without degrees as I do with them. I’m sure those that live outside the circles of academic or licences professions see it like that.

 

[jc100]

What does GDP have to do with a comparison on funding? As for research grants, in the US those are typically competitive endeavours that universities can financially benefit from.

As for tuition, yes for private universities, an no for exceptional students and many state universities.

As I said before, you can’t do apples to apples comparisons, but you can compare operating costs, outcomes for students, and to some degree the benefits to society.

Sorry Mike, there’s zero way of comparing the two. Your average NIH grant is magnitudes more than an average comparable grant here in Canada and that all flows into an institution that attracts more of those grants than any Canadian university ever could save perhaps U of T. The funding per student from the government is different, the tuition is different.

 

[jc100]

All public institutions are in service of the country. And universities do not have a monopoly on educating the public.

I know as many successful people without degrees as I do with them. I’m sure those that live outside the circles of academic or licences professions see it like that.

Sure and I’m not discounting that. How many of those people have patents that have driven tech transfer compared to those within the higher education system though?