2012 Auto Show

[boarder360]

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Have to take top gears reviews with a grain of salt. But works as a good comparison between the american and europeans in terms of quality.

[video=youtube;g4CPBfpnye0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4CPBfpnye0[/video]

 

[invictus43]

Lord knows if they'll ever figure out forced induction or V8s for their cars.

I'd say the RA-168E showed some forced induction knowledge.. You guys are picking your arguments..it's really non-sensical to argue about whose the better car company...it's like arguing who has the best motorcycle..

 

[fastar1]

I'd say the RA-168E showed some forced induction knowledge.. You guys are picking your arguments..it's really non-sensical to argue about whose the better car company...it's like arguing who has the best motorcycle..

I'm not saying GM is better, just that they are competitive with the best.

 

[murf]

Old wive's tale.
Cars are in 'pre-production' for a long time, some up to 10yrs.
Prototypes come first, then refinements, then sale to the public.

they always make big changes during Christmas break when they can get access to the tooling for a couple weeks, then again during the summer break to address any shortcomings. Definately not a old wifes tale!

They are not in preproduction for a long time either. You make a few pilots, then a few hundred non-saleable vehicles to see if any issues crop up with the vehicles or manufacturing and then go into saleable vehicles that are sold to the public. This takes only a few months.

 

[Gary]

they always make big changes during Christmas break when they can get access to the tooling for a couple weeks, then again during the summer break to address any shortcomings. Definately not a old wifes tale!

They are not in preproduction for a long time either. You make a few pilots, then a few hundred non-saleable vehicles to see if any issues crop up with the vehicles or manufacturing and then go into saleable vehicles that are sold to the public. This takes only a few months.

I only spoke from experience.
I was chosen (with several others) for 2 pre-production unit builds. Once in Dearborn, once in Detroit.
Long before they pump out a few pilots and "xxxxxxxxxx" VIN vehicles (which includes ALL stamping of parts) they hand build 'prototypes'.
Did you know that the Tempo / Topaz was ~5 yrs in the making?
The Winstar ~8yrs before it hit the street (originally named the "Win88"), but it wasn't ready (govt crash test failures) until 1994.
I can't speak for GM or Mopar - did my time & retired from Ford - but that's how it works, even when building 'junk'.

 

[murf]

Sorry but I think I started a bit later than you, I watched the vehicle development program go from more than 24 months, to 18, to 12.

I think our terminolgy might be a bit different.......what you are describing sounds like a " mule build". Preproduction to me means Pilots or nonsaleables that can be built with "soft tooling". At Ford do prototypes even need to be built at a plant?

 

[SunnY S]

 

[murf]

And yet Ford didn't.

Besides, it's not news that the orient protects their auto industries.

 

[crankcall]

I only spoke from experience.


Did you know that the Tempo / Topaz was ~5 yrs in the making?
but that's how it works, even when building 'junk'.

That pretty much sums up what WAS wrong with NA builders, development times are a fraction of what they were. But they spent 5 yrs and arrived at the Tempo/Topaz? thats sad.

 

[fastar1]

The irony is that they big three had been stuggling uphill for decades against their old ways and every new generation of vehicle was succeeding in closing the gap on the competition, until they finally caught up and the economy collapsed. Now everyone is holding it against GM and Chrysler that they needed a bailout, in some cases refusing to buy those brands any more. I suppose they also refuse to do any banking or investing in the US too. Not.

Yet the Japanese and Korean manufacturers have been in bed with their governments from the very start, and they continue to reap the rewards of favourable lending, contracting, and infrastructure support that is well beyond what Americans would put up with.

The reality is that from a product perspective at least, GM and Ford saved themselves. Ford was just in a position to ride out the storm on their own, but for GM and Chrysler people only see the bailout.

It's actually pretty ridiculous that people get so attached to a flawed economic model that they can't see the benefit of avoiding the abyss they were heading into.

 

[kickstartt]

It was sad to see the Ford Mustang Boss 302 sitting in a dark corner with no lights shining on it... but they put the normal mustang on the stand...

 

[dr_sarcasm]

It was sad to see the Ford Mustang Boss 302 sitting in a dark corner with no lights shining on it... but they put the normal mustang on the stand...

I cried a little, deep inside.

 

[kamikaze]

AWD four seat Ferrari with a V12 that does 335 KPH.... I would if I could....

Top Gear just did a segment on that thing on Sunday. I don't think Clarkson was very impressed, and it's got some strange AWD system with 2 transmissions.

 

[crankcall]

Porche with a 4dr car, Ferrari with 4 seaters, whats next? Chrysler going to build a minivan?

 

[OpenGambit]

Porche with a 4dr car, Ferrari with 4 seaters, whats next? Chrysler going to build a minivan?

as much as I hate to say it. I think the Panamera is actually a really good car.

 

[dr_sarcasm]

as much as I hate to say it. I think the Panamera is actually a really good car.

...the sight of that car makes me want to punch kittens...

 

[OpenGambit]

I'll rather a car company exist and make a few mass market cars, than only make 1 niche thing and disappear.

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

I'll never go see the GM/Chrysler sections. We as tax payers will never be paid back, even thought the Lamestream media has reported they did repay the bailout.

I will continue to buy foriegn makes becasue I know how corruptthe domestic makers are along with our governments/Unions.

The books of the domestic car makers are more cooked then the steaks at Baton Rouge.

Hyundai/KIA are destroying the Japanese/Domestics more than you think.

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

Everything you wrote could be described as a good take on the state of the automotive industry... ten years ago.

You describe a $100,000 Corvette as "a friggin Chevy" as opposed to "a Porsche and Ferrari slayer". Open your eyes, GM has come a long, long, very long way. Ten years ago they weren't competitive in an segment except trucks, now they are easily a match and sometimes a leader in their segments as well as in innovation. Dealerships remain a weak point though.

The Focus is a sub-par effort? wow man. Maybe the first gen Focus, sure. Or maybe those journos around the world don't know a good car when they see it.

Chrysler... yeah could be right. They haven't changed much in ten years, but last year they were showing another attempt to get back on track so I will reserve judgement on them until after the show.

Hyundai reliability concerns! Seriously, welcome to 1990 LOL.

OK so MB weren't in a great spot ten years ago, but what makes them stand out now? (I'm asking seriously, so I can check this stuff out on Tuesday).

The NSX. You know that's $100,000 for a friggin Honda in other markets, right?

Toyota is good value. Stop the presses! OK I gotta admit they don't change much, that's part of their recipe for success.

Mitsubishi has been selling cars in Canada for... guess how long? Yup, almost 10 years already LOL!

LOL! It's people like this is why North America is in so much trouble and why all production of all goods is moving to Asia. You could never get your head out of the sane to see how bad manufactering is in North America. BTW..only reason FORD is doing well is because of Ford of UK and Brazil.

 

[dr_sarcasm]

LOL! It's people like this is why North America is in so much trouble and why all production of all goods is moving to Asia. You could never get your head out of the sane to see how bad manufactering is in North America. BTW..only reason FORD is doing well is because of Ford of UK and Brazil.

Uh...nothing in his post even suggested what you're implying - maybe I'm missing the obvious here i.e. how does what fastar1 is saying suggest that it is at the core of what ails North American manufacturing as you are insinuating e.g. "Hyundai reliability concerns..."?? The OP is clearly a proponent/fanatic of a certain geographical realm in terms of car production, and fastar1 just points out that there may be potentially one or three flaws in the original argument.

Odd.

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