Who cares about the long gun registry?

[klr_guy]

1.2 Billion dollars and the best they can come up with is that it lets peace officers responding to a domestic know that there is a gun in the house.

[sarcasm on] Because the registry is so useful, if they see there are 'no guns in the house', the police just leave their firearms in the squad car, if they see there is a gopher plunking .22 they go in with safety off and in kill mode [sarcasm off]

 

[adamwest]

it's interesting reflecting on how polite people were down in Houston. especially on roadways. a person would have no trouble merging in or out of traffic. i lived there for 3 years. hmmm... any guesses why? yup... an armed society is a polite society. nuff said.

 

[iridebikes]

so what's stopping people from renewing their licenses? why do they allow them to lapse?

Because renewal applications sometimes come late or not at all. That, or they aren't processed in a timely manner and folks who send them in with plenty of time still lose their licences. This is commonplace and inexcusable.

 

[skip]

We've come full circle here. The thread is titled 'Who cares about the long gun registry' and seeing as the majority of Canadians vote for parties that are for the registry or apathetic at best is the biggest tell that this gun registry is not an important issue in the minds of the voting public.

Considering voter turn out was only 58.8% in 2008....

 

[AdRath]

Considering voter turn out was only 58.8% in 2008....

Again if it was a big issue with the other 41.2% of the people they would be out voting. Obviously this isn't even on most voters radar as a major issue. I'm sure all of those who are against the registry were out to vote for the PCs as that was part of the platform if I remember correctly.

I could really care less either way. I was against the registry and my home town MP Paul Stekle (sp?) voted against it and against party rank (he is liberal) because his voters didn't want it (rural hunting area). Now that it has already happened and the billions have been spent i'm rather indifferent. Scrapping it won't get the money back. Does anyone have an idea on how much it costs to maintain? That is my real concern as a tax payer.

 

[afong56]

Because renewal applications sometimes come late or not at all. That, or they aren't processed in a timely manner and folks who send them in with plenty of time still lose their licences. This is commonplace and inexcusable.

are we to believe that the majority of lapsed licenses are not due to the owner's inaction?

do you have any stats to show how prevalent this is, or is it solely anecdotal?

 

[Duster929]

How do you guys feel about the vehicle registry? I think this issue impacts far more canadians, and costs a heck of a lot more. Shouldn't abolishing that registry be more important than abolishing the gun registry?

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Again if it was a big issue with the other 41.2% of the people they would be out voting. Obviously this isn't even on most voters radar as a major issue. I'm sure all of those who are against the registry were out to vote for the PCs as that was part of the platform if I remember correctly.

I could really care less either way. I was against the registry and my home town MP Paul Stekle (sp?) voted against it and against party rank (he is liberal) because his voters didn't want it (rural hunting area). Now that it has already happened and the billions have been spent i'm rather indifferent. Scrapping it won't get the money back. Does anyone have an idea on how much it costs to maintain? That is my real concern as a tax payer.

from http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2-eng.aspx

The Long-Gun Registry: Costs and Crime Statistics

Costs
In 1995, the previous government told Parliament that the firearms program, most specifically the long-gun registry, would involve a net cost of just $2 million (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
In May 2000, the previous government admitted that the costs had actually ballooned to at least $327 million (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
By March 2005 the net cost of the firearms program was $946 million and by summer of 2006, costs had exceeded $1 billion. The Auditor General stated that Parliament was misinformed about many of these costs. (Auditor General's Report 2006, Chapter 4).
Neither the costs incurred by provincial and territorial agencies in enforcing the legislation, nor the costs borne by Firearms owners and businesses to comply with the legislation have been calculated. (Auditor General's Report 2002, Chapter 10).
Two Library of Parliament studies estimate that the enforcement and compliance costs are substantial, running into hundreds of millions of dollars. (Compliance Costs of Firearms Registration, 10 October 2003; and, Estimates of Some of the Costs of Enforcing the Firearms Act, 20 March 2003).
Crime Statistics
There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered. (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics).
Illegal smuggling by organized crime is by far the principal source of firearms on our streets. Indeed, the Vancouver police report that 97 percent of firearms seized in 2003 were illegal guns smuggled in from the United States, usually by organized crime (Vancouver Police, Strategic Plan 2004-08).

between 2000 and 2005 over 600 million ($600,000,000,000) was spent on the long gun registry. that's over 100 million a year. That's not including money spent by the provinces.

Even better is according to those stats only 3 percent of guns used in crime were not smuggled in to Canada.

These are statistics provided by our government, not some lobby group.

 

[mat2312]

so what's stopping people from renewing their licenses? why do they allow them to lapse?

if people are not responsible enough to make sure that they keep their licenses up to date, perhaps they aren't responsible enough to own guns. i for one think it's not unreasonable to expect people who own lethal weapons to have the presence of mind to renew on time.

and it's not like you don't get the guns back, once you pay the renewal. sounds like a lot of 'responsible' gun owners got away with not paying renewal fees on their licenses for years or not storing them properly, and now they're ****** because that loophole is closed. . .

Why should licenses expire in the first place? How come some individuals do not receive renewal paperwork or file their paperwork and never have it processed by the government backlog??? Some reports have license renewals taking MONTHS Does your car get confiscated when your driver's license expires? If you forget your license plate sticker, does that make you an irresponsible driver????

So a license expiry means someone isn't responsible to own firearms? A firearms owner has completed their RCMP background check, a safety course and is a law abiding citizen, just because some bureaucrat says we have to renew our license every 5 years has nothing to do with our actual safe possession of firearms.

Please stop calling them 'lethal weapons'. A butter knife can be a lethal weapon, a medical syringe can be a lethal weapon, it all depends on the user. A firearm is a tool which when used by a person can provide food (hunting), sport (sport shooting) or can be an instrument of violence.

Safe storage has nothing to do with license lapsing, the fact is Alan Rock told firearms owners that the registry would never be used for confiscation. What has happened is a blatant slap in the face. There is absolutely no reason why the police should be targetting license lapsers when there are illegal DANGEROUS people on the street with illegal firearms. A simple courtesy call to remind firearms owners that their license has lapsed and they need to renew would be much better served. Yes the firearms are POTENTIALLY returned, but many have been damaged by the police, lost by the police or firearms owners have had to jump through hoops to prove to the police that the firearms in question are the ones registered (many inaccuracies in the registry) or meet legal standard (because the police haven't a clue as to legalities of firearms)

 

[Duster929]

from http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2-eng.aspx



between 2000 and 2005 over 600 million ($600,000,000,000) was spent on the long gun registry. that's over 100 million a year. That's not including money spent by the provinces.

Even better is according to those stats only 3 percent of guns used in crime were not smuggled in to Canada.

These are statistics provided by our government, not some lobby group.

You've got a few too many zeros there. Do you work for the government? 600 million is $600,000,000.

 

[turbodish]

it's interesting reflecting on how polite people were down in Houston. especially on roadways. a person would have no trouble merging in or out of traffic. i lived there for 3 years. hmmm... any guesses why? yup... an armed society is a polite society. nuff said.

Really now? They may be polite, but being armed doesn't make Texas particularly safe when compared to other places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

And this one - darker means higher per capita murder rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_rate

 

[CruisnGrrl]

You've got a few too many zeros there. Do you work for the government? 600 million is $600,000,000.

bil·lion   
[bil-yuhn] Show IPA
noun, plural -lions, ( as after a numeral ) -lion, adjective
–noun
1.
a cardinal number represented in the U.S. by 1 followed by 9 zeros, and in Great Britain by 1 followed by 12 zeros.

Being that we use British English (ie colour, valour, etc)....

 

[Icbones]

so what's stopping people from renewing their licenses? why do they allow them to lapse?

if people are not responsible enough to make sure that they keep their licenses up to date, perhaps they aren't responsible enough to own guns. i for one think it's not unreasonable to expect people who own lethal weapons to have the presence of mind to renew on time.

and it's not like you don't get the guns back, once you pay the renewal. sounds like a lot of 'responsible' gun owners got away with not paying renewal fees on their licenses for years or not storing them properly, and now they're ****** because that loophole is closed. . .

Why should I need to pay a fee to keep something a legally own? If you let your drivers license lapse do the police confiscate your car? No, you just can't drive it on public roads. So IMO if I keep my PAL up to date, I should be able to carry a gun in public, is that OK with you?

 

[Duster929]

Being that we use British English (ie colour, valour, etc)....

Now I KNOW you work for the government. Your first post talked about millions, and suddenly that's turned into billions!

 

[turbodish]

Why should I need to pay a fee to keep something a legally own? If you let your drivers license lapse do the police confiscate your car? No, you just can't drive it on public roads. So IMO if I keep my PAL up to date, I should be able to carry a gun in public, is that OK with you?

Legal possession of weapons in Canada is subject to restrictions. One is maintaining a license. If you allow your license to lapse, your continued possession of a weapon is no longer legal, is it? So your choice, keep license up to date, or give up weapons.

 

[mat2312]

Legal possession of weapons in Canada is subject to restrictions. One is maintaining a license. If you allow your license to lapse, your continued possession of a weapon is no longer legal, is it? So your choice, keep license up to date, or give up weapons.

I believe that we have a fundamental right to own property, especially items which we may use to defend ourselves (another inherent right). Having said that, a license is a reasonable restriction imho but not when it may lapse over a period of time. You are either properly trained or not, it should be a one time thing. I have a problem with the registry being used for confiscation in this case. A firearms owner who's license has lapsed is NOT a risk to society, it's a paper crime. A simple reminder or even an automatic renewal (hook it up to an income tax refund or something!) would be a much simplier solution.

If we are licenced and up to date, why can't we carry in public? Or shoot handguns on our private property? There are so many unnecessary restrictions put on firearms owners when the data shows we are simply not a danger to society.

 

[mat2312]

Really now? They may be polite, but being armed doesn't make Texas particularly safe when compared to other places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

And this one - darker means higher per capita murder rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_rate

Look at the crime rates/murder rates. The states that have less firearms restrictions are generally safer than the ones that have more firearms restrictions. Is it any wonder states like Florida have seen their crime rates drop once they started allowing C+C?

 

[Icbones]

Legal possession of weapons in Canada is subject to restrictions. One is maintaining a license. If you allow your license to lapse, your continued possession of a weapon is no longer legal, is it? So your choice, keep license up to date, or give up weapons.

Firearms are not weapons, there is no legal possession of weapons allowed in Canada. That's why the green slips of paper from the RCMP that said restricted weapons certificate were re-issued and changed to a restricted firearms certificate. But. more importantly your statement does not answer my question. Why should I pay a fee to continue to own a legally acquired object?

 

[Duster929]

I believe that we have a fundamental right to own property, especially items which we may use to defend ourselves (another inherent right).

Agreed. Which is why I have an anti-aircraft gun mounted on the roof of my house.

 

[mat2312]

Agreed. Which is why I have an anti-aircraft gun mounted on the roof of my house.

To be honest, I'd have no problem with that unless you've shown in your past to have a violent criminal history or a medical issue which would prevent you from exercising sound judgement.


We need less bans, and more personal responsibility.