Who cares about the long gun registry?

[afong56]

That is murder per capita, not gun related murders per capita. Where is the data for the resulting spike in UK knife murders since firearms were banned there?

These are the types of "statistics" that proponents of the gun registry present to make their case.

lol, read my post, and the post i quote, which i actually replied to. . .he claims that the "amount of murder" is increasing in britain. not gun murder. murder.

jeez, learn to read.

it's gun lovers who like to cite 'increases in murder' without any context (which i provided) in order to suggest that gun control countries are bad.

 

[rmemedic]

This bill was fought by the legal gun owners back when it was being brought up, I remember all the neon green say no to bill c-68 stickers.
We were all against it as we knew it was just a way for the government to bully us, to use our legal obligations as non-criminals against us. Honestly, it felt like we were being convicted for a crime that wasn't committed.
The majority of gun related crimes are from illegally aquired short barreled fire arms, not your grandpa's 870 pump that he uses for goose hunting.
All this does it give the gun toting criminals more freedom to do what they want, they will carry no matter how illegal it is because it's part of their way of life. They are more likely to use a firearm in a crime knowing that chances are, the victim is un-armed. With PROPER TRAINING, a firearm isn't really a bad form of home and self defence, especially if you live in a rural place where it might take 20 minutes or more for a single cop to show up.
The government now has a master list of who has what and how many firearms (which, by the way they had BEFORE this bill since they were registered when you bought the gun, just now you pay for it every year.) and in a tinfoil hat scenario, the government can use that information against us, as in stripping each and every one of us legal owners of our firearms.
On the main base here, we all have a weapon and a full mag on us at all times, and I feel safer than when I'm in a mall in Toronto.

I've had a gun in my hands for as long as I can remember, and not once have I had one randomly go off and kill someone I didn't intend to, and I spend more time with a loaded firearm than most people out there. I do it for work and as a way of life.

The bill was supposed to cost only $1million to set up the registry, but somehow it's now into the Billions... I wonder how many illegal fire arms could have been taken off the street with proper allocation of that money?

But hey, I'm just a stupid redneck and we're not supposed to have 'em north of the border right? People need to get their heads out of their *****.

 

[afong56]

I checked the link. It shows every country on the planet. This is directly to the U.N. website.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Basically, my point was the best places in the world to live, allow citizens to own firearms. With varying degrees of restrictions. The reason I used this as an example is because anti gun groups pick 15-20 countries to compare rates of firearm deaths. The U.S. is always at the top of the list for firearm related homicides. That being said, the countries they select are also best places to live on the planet. Anti gun groups never use third world countries, that for the most part ban the private ownership of firearms in showing rates of gun deaths.

i'm glad you explained yourself, because trying to use the human development index scores of countries to correlate with gun ownership rights is terribly flawed logic.

on the other hand, i fail to see how comparing countries that are developed nations such as england, the u.s., canada, etc. is flawed.

it would be incredibly specious to compare countries that don't enjoy democracies, rule of law, or are actually in open warfare/conflict with canada or the u.s. is non-sensical.

 

[afong56]

We were all against it as we knew it was just a way for the government to bully us, to use our legal obligations as non-criminals against us. Honestly, it felt like we were being convicted for a crime that wasn't committed.

just exactly what rights have changed as a result of the gun registry?

 

[rmemedic]

It's the fact that our rights are now even easier to take away. All it's going to take is one mistake and then there will be a run away train on more gun laws, just like with all of this HTA crap going on now.
I personally have little interest in owning an assault rifle, all I have are my hunting tools and occasionally me and the boys go out and shoot up some clays.
I actually could have a use for an assault rifle and a hand gun to keep my skills sharp as I don't get enough range time, but I'm not at a loss without them in my home... However I'm sure some day I will get my restricted license and pick up a nice little fun shooter.

 

[afong56]

It's the fact that our rights are now even easier to take away. All it's going to take is one mistake and then there will be a run away train on more gun laws, just like with all of this HTA crap going on now.
I personally have little interest in owning an assault rifle, all I have are my hunting tools and occasionally me and the boys go out and shoot up some clays.
I actually could have a use for an assault rifle and a hand gun to keep my skills sharp as I don't get enough range time, but I'm not at a loss without them in my home... However I'm sure some day I will get my restricted license and pick up a nice little fun shooter.

so the gun registry has not changed any existing rights. thanks for clarifying that.

it is so ironic that fearmongering about potentially stolen rights by government is hyped, while the same reform government that decries the gun registry just spent over a billion of our taxpayers dollars to actually steal our civil rights/liberties on the streets of toronto during the g20 weekend.

how's that for a huge waste of money that demonstrably led to a loss of rights? way to go harper.

 

[NP6000]

lol, read my post, and the post i quote, which i actually replied to. . .he claims that the "amount of murder" is increasing in britain. not gun murder. murder.

jeez, learn to read.

it's gun lovers who like to cite 'increases in murder' without any context (which i provided) in order to suggest that gun control countries are bad.

My reading comprehension is spot on, thanks very much. Should you decide to delve further into the statistics you linked, you would note that gun murders per capita Canada is ranked #20 and the UK is ranked # 32. In murders per capita, Canada is #44 and UK is #46.

Let me clear that up for you in case you can't figure it out - the banning of firearms in the UK doesn't change the per capita murder rate in proportion to the reduced homicides commited with firearms.

 

[Duster929]

You sure did pick some $hit ho;e countries. Truth be told, I don't know what the gun laws are in the examples you gave. I was thinking more realistically. Countries that Canadians might actually visit, example Mexico and Jamaica. I'm sure both those countries have banned most if not all guns. The anti's never mention per capita gun related deaths in their statistics. I might add that it is not guns and owning them that makes a country a great place to live. It is the freedom that allows you to own them that makes it great.

Don't try to turn it around. I didn't pick those countries, you did. You posted the website and used it as support for your point, which was that the countries at the bottom of the list had more restrictive gun rules than those at the top. I simply pointed out that it wasn't true.

 

[afong56]

My reading comprehension is spot on, thanks very much. Should you decide to delve further into the statistics you linked, you would note that gun murders per capita Canada is ranked #20 and the UK is ranked # 32. In murders per capita, Canada is #44 and UK is #46.

Let me clear that up for you in case you can't figure it out - the banning of firearms in the UK doesn't change the per capita murder rate in proportion to the reduced homicides commited with firearms.

the original post that i commented on suggested that they hoped canada would not become more like the u.k.

well, as far as murders go, we would be better off if we did become more like the u.k. that's my point. even a move from 44th to 46th is still an improvement.

a country like the u.k., where they have much more restrictive gun laws, has lower murders both in sheer number, and per capita than canada.

i don't see how that is a bad thing. is it necessarily correlated? maybe not, but i'm not suggesting that.

you seem intent on reading more into what i actually wrote than is actually there. slow down.

as for your last contention, i don't see where i've actually suggested that banning guns would reduce all murders. it certainly reduces gun murders. if you want to spend all day confronting me with things i've never written, in classic straw man logical arguments, then enjoy yourself.

 

[skip]

Do you think the UK's geographic location may have something to do with it as well? Smuggling guns into an island is harder then across our massive land boarder I would think.

 

[afong56]

Do you think the UK's geographic location may have something to do with it as well? Smuggling guns into an island is harder then across our massive land boarder I would think.

the massive border is one thing. i think the fact that border is with one of the top arms trade/producing nations in the world is the real issue. the u.s. will sell weapons to just about anyone, and china will sell weapons to anyone.

 

[Icbones]

it would be incredibly specious to compare countries that don't enjoy democracies, rule of law, or are actually in open warfare/conflict with canada or the u.s. is non-sensical.

I'm no history expert, but If it was not for guns in the hands of early Americans against the British, do you think the U.S. would be a democracy today?

 

[mat2312]

so the gun registry has not changed any existing rights. thanks for clarifying that.

it is so ironic that fearmongering about potentially stolen rights by government is hyped, while the same reform government that decries the gun registry just spent over a billion of our taxpayers dollars to actually steal our civil rights/liberties on the streets of toronto during the g20 weekend.

how's that for a huge waste of money that demonstrably led to a loss of rights? way to go harper.

Which government was responsible for passing the security legislation? Last time I checked it was McGuinty and Bill Blair who are as LEFT as they come. But I do agree with you that the rights of the individuals at the G20 protests are just as important as the rights of firearms owners. We are one and the same and it's about time the government starts respecting the inherent rights of its citizens.

Of course the registry has changed our existing inherent right to own property. When a firearms license expires, the police have arrived at people's doors and used the registry to confisgate firearms. The RCMP have also 'reclassified' firearms from unrestricted to restricted or restricted to prohibited (most of the time simply because they LOOK scary eg. T97) then used the registry to confiscate legally owned property.

You obviously aren't a firearms owner or you'd know the sheer amount of BS we have to go through. After passing our background check we have to put up with harassment from law enforcement/government officials and idiotic legislation that does NOT protect the public. The registry is only a part of the problem, but it seems all we get is death from 1000 cuts. Why should a law abiding citizen have to be treated this way? We treat our legitimate criminals with more respect in our justice system.

I'm sick and tired of people accusing firearms owners of being unaccomodating or unreasonable for putting up a fight when their rights are threatened. The registry serves absolutely NO purpose except to hassle law abiding citizens.

 

[afong56]

Of course the registry has changed our existing inherent right to own property. When a firearms license expires, the police have arrived at people's doors and used the registry to confisgate firearms. The RCMP have also 'reclassified' firearms from unrestricted to restricted or restricted to prohibited (most of the time simply because they LOOK scary eg. T97) then used the registry to confiscate legally owned property.

it sounds to me that your problem is not with the gun registry changing your inherent rights. those rights were changed by the re-classification of arms. that's what actually changed your 'rights'.

why don't you lobby to have the classification of arms changed back? based on what you've written, that's what is causing you problems

 

[afong56]

I'm no history expert, but If it was not for guns in the hands of early Americans against the British, do you think the U.S. would be a democracy today?

well, to put it simply, yes.

they would be an affiliated commonwealth nation like canada, australia, new zealand, etc.--all democracies and formerly colonies of england.

not sure how this relates to what you quoted.

 

[Rotten_Ronnie]

1.2 Billion dollars and the best they can come up with is that it lets peace officers responding to a domestic know that there is a gun in the house. How come we can't stop the criminals from bringing the guns across the border with this money? It just seems to make more sense to seek out the bad guys rather than turn spend it lining up the good guys and making it harder to own a long arm in this country.

 

[mat2312]

it sounds to me that your problem is not with the gun registry changing your inherent rights. those rights were changed by the re-classification of arms. that's what actually changed your 'rights'.

why don't you lobby to have the classification of arms changed back? based on what you've written, that's what is causing you problems

For starters, the RCMP should have absolutely zero to do with classification of firearms, and there is absolutely no reason why a firearm should be restricted based on aesthetics. Who should we lobby btw? The Liberals, NDP and Bloc are all openly anti-firearm and would jump at the chance to put even more restrictions on us if not ban firearms altogether. The recent gun registry vote is an excellent demonstration of this. Unless the CPC gets a majority government in the next election, law abiding citizens will continue to be victimized.

Did you not read the part about the registry being used to confiscate firearms from license lapsers? The registry is a part of the process to hassle and inconvenience law abiding firearms owners. It is a direct challenge to our right to own property. We do have problems with the reclassification of firearms but the registry is just as harmful.

Keep in mind it's a useless inaccurate list that's been compromised multiple times and it's never been proven to solve a single crime. These are FACTS.

 

[bigguy1]

This is because the registry is linked in to their systems. As soon as they type in a name the registry is automatically accessed as well as several other databases. They don't actually use the registry as the media would have you believe.

 

[AdRath]

The Liberals, NDP and Bloc are all openly anti-firearm and would jump at the chance to put even more restrictions on us if not ban firearms altogether. The recent gun registry vote is an excellent demonstration of this. Unless the CPC gets a majority government in the next election, law abiding citizens will continue to be victimized.

We've come full circle here. The thread is titled 'Who cares about the long gun registry' and seeing as the majority of Canadians vote for parties that are for the registry or apathetic at best is the biggest tell that this gun registry is not an important issue in the minds of the voting public.

 

[afong56]

For starters, the RCMP should have absolutely zero to do with classification of firearms, and there is absolutely no reason why a firearm should be restricted based on aesthetics. Who should we lobby btw? The Liberals, NDP and Bloc are all openly anti-firearm and would jump at the chance to put even more restrictions on us if not ban firearms altogether. The recent gun registry vote is an excellent demonstration of this. Unless the CPC gets a majority government in the next election, law abiding citizens will continue to be victimized.

Did you not read the part about the registry being used to confiscate firearms from license lapsers? The registry is a part of the process to hassle and inconvenience law abiding firearms owners. It is a direct challenge to our right to own property. We do have problems with the reclassification of firearms but the registry is just as harmful.

Keep in mind it's a useless inaccurate list that's been compromised multiple times and it's never been proven to solve a single crime. These are FACTS.

so what's stopping people from renewing their licenses? why do they allow them to lapse?

if people are not responsible enough to make sure that they keep their licenses up to date, perhaps they aren't responsible enough to own guns. i for one think it's not unreasonable to expect people who own lethal weapons to have the presence of mind to renew on time.

and it's not like you don't get the guns back, once you pay the renewal. sounds like a lot of 'responsible' gun owners got away with not paying renewal fees on their licenses for years or not storing them properly, and now they're ****** because that loophole is closed. . .