You realize slipper clutches are pretty much directly derived from race bikes, right?
Rev matching is a skill EVERYONE should learn at some point - makes it a whole lot safer just in case you need it in an emergency situation and cant rely on a slipper clutch.
Agreed, BSB riders revmatch all the time despite running quality slipper clutches. With that said, not every pro out there rev matches and some just like to depend on their slippers, which is fair enough. Now that you have autoblip systems most people won't care at all about rev matching.
When I learned this it was called "brottle", the transition overlap that has you rolling on throttle before completely releasing the brakes. It gives you a smooth the transition from braking force to driving force, no see-saw from brakes to throttle. I used to do this when racing small cars, picked it up on bikes a few years ago after talking about it with my kid's roommate who is a pretty accomplished bike racer.
just finished practicing trail braking at a round about and a Go parking lot. problem with applying gas and releasing the brakes at the same time in a smooth and consistent way.
here some video on it
Doesn't the advice in that video contradict the advice given in the video series Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code? His teachings are of the "do all your braking before entering the corner" school of thought. It gets confusing taking advice from different conflicting sources. Who do you believe?
Doesn't the advice in that video contradict the advice given in the video series Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code? His teachings are of the "do all your braking before entering the corner" school of thought. It gets confusing taking advice from different conflicting sources. Who do you believe?
They are both valid techniques. Trail braking is just a slightly more advanced way to take a corner. Being able to do both with give you more options when you're riding.
I understand why they don't teach trail braking to beginner riders. Watch any M1X course - half the people are stuck on the concept of a clutch and taking a low speed corner. Telling someone who's still at the beginning level of riding to brake in a corner is just asking for trouble. At the same time drilling in "you can't brake through a corner" is just limiting. Twist of the Wrist is great for explaining how to setup for a corner, counter-steer, and to avoid common mistakes (running wide, target fixation, too much braking).
Doesn't the advice in that video contradict the advice given in the video series Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code? His teachings are of the "do all your braking before entering the corner" school of thought. It gets confusing taking advice from different conflicting sources. Who do you believe?
Both techniques are valid and have their uses on the street, but if you're on the track and your aim is to go fast then trail braking is definitely there it's at. It's the technique used by almost every racer including all the pros. No one in pro racing enters corners off the brakes, being on the brakes will give the front tire more grip from the bigger contact patch being generated by the braking force generated by the front brake.
I discovered trail braking by accident. When I would occasionally run into too tight a corner unexpectedly, I would trail brake instinctively thinking I was making a mistake. Now that I understand the mechanics better, I practice it, use it skillfully, and more often. Just 2% front brake pressure in a corner is all you need, followed by well-timed acceleration. A game changer!
Doesn't the advice in that video contradict the advice given in the video series Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code? His teachings are of the "do all your braking before entering the corner" school of thought. It gets confusing taking advice from different conflicting sources. Who do you believe?
I don't know what they're telling you but "trail braking" has nothing to do with slowing the bike down.
Yes, by all means use braking to get the bike/car to get the speed you want for the corner, then you use trail braking to move the virtual COG (center of gravity) of the bike/car forward to get more weight on the front wheel(s).
If you're doing it right, you shouldn't be slowing the bike/car by trailbraking. You counteract the light application of brake with a light application of throttle.
Trail braking would be considered an"advanced" technique, so not taught to beginners.
Just an observation about the difference between trail-braking and braking in a corner:
I've followed many riders on the street and watched them "trail-brake", the brake light flashing as they hit their brakes deep into the turn. Meanwhile, I've done all my braking in a straight line and I'm still rapidly approaching them - my corner speed is much faster than theirs.
After the ride, I've confirmed that they are indeed trying to trail-brake and it's not just panic-braking while in the corner.
I think it's great you're practicing advanced techniques and everything, but if you scrub off more speed than if you were to do all your braking while the bike is straight up, then you're not really trail-braking.
Both techniques are valid and have their uses on the street, but if you're on the track and your aim is to go fast then trail braking is definitely there it's at. It's the technique used by almost every racer including all the pros. No one in pro racing enters corners off the brakes, being on the brakes will give the front tire more grip from the bigger contact patch being generated by the braking force generated by the front brake.
I don't think you really want trail braking for increasing the front patch, that much in the turn risks making the back loose, you just want the front forks to compress an inch or two to tighten the increase the speed you can carry thru the same turn radius.
Just an observation about the difference between trail-braking and braking in a corner:
I've followed many riders on the street and watched them "trail-brake", the brake light flashing as they hit their brakes deep into the turn. Meanwhile, I've done all my braking in a straight line and I'm still rapidly approaching them - my corner speed is much faster than theirs.
After the ride, I've confirmed that they are indeed trying to trail-brake and it's not just panic-braking while in the corner.
I think it's great you're practicing advanced techniques and everything, but if you scrub off more speed than if you were to do all your braking while the bike is straight up, then you're not really trail-braking.
I agree, that's why I'm on the gas to offset trail braking -- I don't want the brakes to slow the bike, just change the geometry to help me hold speed.
On my Fz07, the engine braking is so hard that by the time I reach the corner I'm already going slow enough to power out of it, would have to try entering a corner too fast in order to keep a hand on the brake. Without gas the bike will keep slowing down even more through a corner, not much use in adding a brake to the equation.
On my Fz07, the engine braking is so hard that by the time I reach the corner I'm already going slow enough to power out of it, would have to try entering a corner too fast in order to keep a hand on the brake. Without gas the bike will keep slowing down even more through a corner, not much use in adding a brake to the equation.
I’ve experienced the same thing, especially given my other thread on how aggressive the engine brakes are on my 650.
What I’ve tried is keeping the RPMs higher going into the turn with slightly higher than normal speed while feathering the brakes to see how it feels.
It’s kind of like being on the throttle and brakes at the same time. But when I get it right, the turn feels quite smooth even at speed. I think some of the smoothness though is coming from not engine braking rather than being specifically for trail braking. Kind of hard to describe
I've followed many riders on the street and watched them "trail-brake", the brake light flashing as they hit their brakes deep into the turn. Meanwhile, I've done all my braking in a straight line and I'm still rapidly approaching them - my corner speed is much faster than theirs.
*SNIP(
You're parking it in the corner.
Those people have no idea what they're doing if they're hitting the brakes mid turn as they're approaching the apex or later.
If your bikes are equal, there is absolutely ZERO chance you will be closing on them if you have done all your braking before the corner and they are doing proper trail braking. They will be carrying a higher corner entry speed, slowing as they approach the apex. If you've slowed before the turn more than they have, they've gained a bunch of distance already. Your corner speed is constant, whilst theirs is reducing from a higher speed to your constant speed at the apex.
I don't think you really want trail braking for increasing the front patch, that much in the turn risks making the back loose, you just want the front forks to compress an inch or two to tighten the increase the speed you can carry thru the same turn radius.
Ummm...... do you properly understand trail braking?? It's done mainly with the front brake. If they're using it properly with good body position, it absolutely WILL NOT cause the rear end to break loose unless you're applying throttle at the same time, which is ludicrous.
"It's done mainly with the front brake...."
Trail braking works with the front or rear.
It is easier and more effective to trail brake the rear. Heavier wheel, increased centripetal force, leverage... I could go on....
If you do not increase the throttle while trail braking, the vehicle will slow down. Sorta the opposite to what we were trying to accomplish....
"I've followed many riders on the street and watched them "trail-brake", the brake light flashing as they hit their brakes deep into the turn...."
That's not trail braking. That's not knowing how to ride.
On and off the brakes mid way through a corner is a great way learn about compound fractures and motorcycle repair.
"It's done mainly with the front brake...."
Trail braking works with the front or rear.
It is easier and more effective to trail brake the rear. Heavier wheel, increased centripetal force, leverage... I could go on....
If you do not increase the thottle while trail braking, the vehicle will slow down. Sorta the opposite to what we were trying to accomplish....
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