Uggghh.So many experts.Hurts the brain it does.Takes a long time on a forum to get to know who to listen to,and who to ignore.
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What's your view on trail braking?
- Thread starter Onagoth
- Start date
Here ya go kids, start reading
motochassis.com
Spoiler: The rear wheel steers the motorcycle.
Motochassis Introduction » Motochassis by Tony Foale
Motochassis is for those interested in motorcycle handling and chassis. Articles and illustrations on motorcycles and racing in general. It is the prime source for the book "Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design" by Tony Foale and software packages for motorcycle suspension setup and analysis.
motochassis.com
Spoiler: The rear wheel steers the motorcycle.
Here's Marc Marquez trail braking into a turn.
Please explain how using the rear brake here is going to help traction in the front?
Then again, he doesn't have 45 years of racing motorcycles, so what does he know.
Great collection of 80's era articles with not a single mention of trail braking anywhere on the site.
congratulations on your 45th first year of riding ?
Onagoth
Well-known member
Is that rear tire intentionally in the air?Here's Marc Marquez trail braking into a turn.
Please explain how using the rear brake here is going to help traction in the front?
Then again, he doesn't have 45 years of racing motorcycles, so what does he know.
Lifting the rear wheel is not the intention, the intention is to stop the bike as quickly and in as short of a distance as possible.
Braking into fast flowing corners, the rear may get a little light, but at the end of a straightaway when the pros are hauling the bike down from 350 km/h to make a 75 km/h turn, rear wheels are probably going to be off the ground. That picture is a bit excessive - looks like he's coming in a bit too hot. Typically, this is what it should look like:
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Note the MAINLY. Implies that rear can be used.
Guess I should have been more clear - sorry!
Onagoth
Well-known member
Not that I’m terribly interested in racing, but is there any trackers that bikes have on them to see how racers use front vs rear brakes going through turns?
My primary curiosity here is how trail braking applies to street riding (can’t remember if I said that in the OP)
My primary curiosity here is how trail braking applies to street riding (can’t remember if I said that in the OP)
I don't think you're going to see the definitive answer on this. It really depends on the racer.
Here's Kevin Schwantz talking about how him and Valentino Rossi don't even touch the rear brake.
But then here's Scott Redding, using the rear brake in conjunction with the front.
But, very telling at the end of the hard braking corner at 1:09, he doesn't touch the rear brake until well into the turn, and more to settle the bike than anything.
Also... how many MotoGP championships has Scott Redding won...
Mad Mike
Well-known member
bitzz is right, you can trail brake using either and both. Might be a little scary using the rear if you don't know where the breaking point is for traction. Rear trailing increases a bikes stability, front trailing reduces it so the net impact of rear trailing is more than just the front.
I don't take it this far, adding rear trail has a much steeper learning curve and a bad bump in the road could send you down low. I use front trail to increase my options in case something is wrong in the corner AND for tight downhill turns.
Can you please cite any reference of rear-brake-only trail braking?
I have never heard of this, and it doesn't make any sense in the context of what benefit trail-braking is supposed to provide.
I have never heard of this, and it doesn't make any sense in the context of what benefit trail-braking is supposed to provide.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
First stop: Trail braking - Wikipedia
Think about this for a second... whether you trail the front or rear, the front comes down and the bike gets more SS personality and more agile in the front. Using only the rear adds stability (where going SS removes stability).
Now, perhaps a lot of folks are getting confused into thinking this is a track thing. Next time you're taking sweeper at a touring speed, try a hair of trail braking -- front or back -- and see what happens. Then ask yourself if your control and stability increases over brake-coasting thru to the point of rolling on. Trail braking works well in parking lots too.
To be cliche: Tony Foale wrote the book on motorcycle frame dynamics, you can buy it on the website.
READ, at least the articles provided, then we can intelligently discuss the topic.
And you may notice that motorcycle frame geometry hasn't changed since the '80. Same wheel base, same steering head angles, same swing arm angles. You can thank Tony for the frame on your 2019 bike. He more or less designed it.
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Yes, by my working definition of trail braking, you are trail braking.
My definition of trail braking is using the brakes to move the vehicle's center of gravity forward to provide more cornering traction to the front wheel(s).
So with the rear wheel in the air there isn't much more force he can put into that front suspension, huh?Here's Marc Marquez trail braking into a turn.
Please explain how using the rear brake here is going to help traction in the front?
Then again, he doesn't have 45 years of racing motorcycles, so what does he know.
... well actually there is centrifugal force in that spinning rear wheel. Looking at the bike from this side there is a clock wise centrifugal force in that rear wheel. If Marc was to apply the REAR brake at this moment, that clock wise centrifugal force would be imparted into the frame, then the front forks, then tire.
So that's how.
... and that rear wheel is still steering the bike.
Increase in traction happens but I think is the game changer is altering geometry — this is certainly the case on the street.
So I'm guessing none of you guy/girls have any real experience in dirt bikes.
You learn to "fly" the bike when you get air.
Hit the rear brake, the front comes down, rotating on the rear axle
Hit he throttle, the front goes up rotating on the rear axle
Hit the front brake THE BACK goes down rotating on the front axle
All while in the air.
You learn to "fly" the bike when you get air.
Hit the rear brake, the front comes down, rotating on the rear axle
Hit he throttle, the front goes up rotating on the rear axle
Hit the front brake THE BACK goes down rotating on the front axle
All while in the air.
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