What to do, potential criminal charges. | Page 7 | GTAMotorcycle.com

What to do, potential criminal charges.

Cool read. So "buddy" should still be charged with theft because he only reached the second level of intoxication. I still believe, however, that the bar should also be charged with over-serving.

Maybe I'm wrong - I just skimmed the case above, but I'd think the thief would be absolved/acquited of the theft due to second level intoxication. Also, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the theft of the purse required any degree of planning - it's not like he used his "bump" key to jimmy the lock of the back store room and pry open a metal storage locker - that would obviously require at least 1st level intoxication or less. However, I think he'd be SOL with a possession of stolen property charge, because, IIRC, he did not return the purse to the bar or turn it in to police when he sobbered up.

What if my bike was stolen, but the thief returns it, and then I go back and say, "hey, I had $1000 in the trunk," when I didn't. Is that fair? How about I claim $2000 more than what my stolen bike is worth and raise everyone's premium? Is that fair?

The way some people think in this thread, you'd think that you could.........and that everything you put forward became the absolute truth and proof - just because the perpetrator was in the wrong. Rules of evidence just don't work that way. Had I identified the thief, I would have contacted the police and let them catch him red-handed.
 
He would, in all likelihood, be found guilty as his level of intoxication did not interfere with mens rea, as stated in the quoted case. You can form intent in a second; it doesn't have to play out like "Ocean's Eleven."
 
However, I think he'd be SOL with a possession of stolen property charge, because, IIRC, he did not return the purse to the bar or turn it in to police when he sobbered up.
That's a good point, but there could be a lot of reasons why he didn't return the purse immediately. He was inebriated to the point of blacking out. Maybe he did not remember taking the purse, or did not remember from where he stole the purse. Maybe the purse did not contain anything (i.e. phone, driver's license, etc.) identifying the owner. There are many things to consider.
 
That's a good point, but there could be a lot of reasons why he didn't return the purse immediately. He was inebriated to the point of blacking out. Maybe he did not remember taking the purse, or did not remember from where he stole the purse. Maybe the purse did not contain anything (i.e. phone, driver's license, etc.) identifying the owner. There are many things to consider.

And around and around and around we go..

He claimed to be with it enough to state (according to the OP) that it 'maybe had $30.00 in it'.

The primary thing of importance to consider, is that he had someone elses property in his possession, obtained by theft, as captured on camera.

He's a thief, he's been caught, and when it goes to court, he's done. The balance of evidence will likely demonstrate that. There is no defending theft, whether drunk, high or sober. Throwing in the 'diminshed responsibility' / shared responsibility defence that the bar serving him somehow made him drink an intoxicating 'theft potion' to make him do the deed, is a red-herring. As i've stated, and as others have also - this isn't a random act of someone out of their head on booze - he had it in him to be a thief before he got a snoot-full. All the booze did was remove any inhibitions to committing an act, while rendering him too stupid to notice the surveillance cameras.

Oh, and where do you live, can i sit on your bike (and knock it over) drunk off my arse? And walk away scot-free without any revenge-lumps or retaliation because i was supposedly too drunk to be responsible for my own actions? Can i not then counter-sue you for not making sure that i didn't injure myself when you failed to insure that the bike was not chained to the ground so that it wouldn't tip over while i was doing the nasty to it?

I thought not.

It's up to the courts to decide what was or was not in the purse, and who is the more believable party that was victimized here. The thief will be at a significant disadvantage in proving what was or was not in that purse, and rightfully so.

I really wonder how some of you can come to the defence of a thief, convicted or otherwise - especially when the evidence points so solidly to him having his mitts upon something that he shouldn't have even thought about having in the first place - someone elses property. It's a pretty basic right vs wrong lesson in morals, that most people have learned by the time they are 4-5 years old.
 
Don't go too far down the road of being sued for someone injuring himself on your bike, Bill. The expression, in law, is "attractive nuisance."
 
Don't go too far down the road of being sued for someone injuring himself on your bike, Bill. The expression, in law, is "attractive nuisance."

US legal statute, no?

Please tell me that our legal system hasn't totally devolved to the US style of "sue 'em, if they got me" and reverse onus.

Saudi style justice for theft and other property crimes keeps looking better all the time.
 
He would, in all likelihood, be found guilty as his level of intoxication did not interfere with mens rea, as stated in the quoted case. You can form intent in a second; it doesn't have to play out like "Ocean's Eleven."

Perhaps in his mind, he found a discarded purse. IIRC, the judge in the case posted above felt a drunk defense was too complicated and inconvenient to put to a jury to consider. The burden of proof put on the defense is so high, it is essentially out of reach - an affirmation that a high level of impairment is a defense, but it's not reasonably available to anyone.

And yes, any drunk could come to my house and mess up my bike. All I can do is use reasonable force to prevent him from doing anymore damage and call the police. If he falls and smashes his head on the pavement as a result, it not only puts me in a position where it appears I used excessive force, but it also opens me up to liability if said drunk becomes injured or disabled. Even if I did nothing and my bike fell on the guy, perhaps I'd still be held liable.
 
Oh, and where do you live, can i sit on your bike (and knock it over) drunk off my arse? And walk away scot-free without any revenge-lumps or retaliation because i was supposedly too drunk to be responsible for my own actions? Can i not then counter-sue you for not making sure that i didn't injure myself when you failed to insure that the bike was not chained to the ground so that it wouldn't tip over while i was doing the nasty to it?

I thought not.
Actually, if I was the one who served you the alcohol, you could sue me.
 
US legal statute, no?

Please tell me that our legal system hasn't totally devolved to the US style of "sue 'em, if they got me" and reverse onus.

Saudi style justice for theft and other property crimes keeps looking better all the time.

It's enshrined in law, in several US States, but the principle also applies here.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2008/2008canlii31351/2008canlii31351.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nssm/doc/2008/2008nssm33/2008nssm33.html
 

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