What the heck….mental hesitation… | Page 11 | GTAMotorcycle.com

What the heck….mental hesitation…

Team_Green said:
We're all entitled to our opinion but If you crash at the track there is medical right there. If you crash on the street there isn't. If you crash on the street you have multiple objects you can hit. On the track, you have run off area designed to slow you and the bike down.

If you think the street is safer, good for you.
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2 types of riding - street riding is done within the limits of the law (more or less), track riding which is done at the limits of the rider.

At race speeds, the track will be safer than the 507. At street speeds I would expect no appreciable difference.

As for crashes, you might have a medic in a minute at the track, won’t be much longer on the street. What happens after the first responder gets there is probably more important. Shannonville and Grandbend aren’t very close to a trama centre.
 
Team_Green said:
You said there were 2? There were more than 2 deaths on the street last week. Thanks for proving the track is safer.
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You argument is nonsensical. People use the track for different purposes than the street.

There’s no argument that motorcycling is dangerous, but using your logic we should stop walking… way more people are killed walking than motorcycling.
 
Mad Mike said:
2 types of riding - street riding is done within the limits of the law (more or less), track riding which is done at the limits of the rider.

At race speeds, the track will be safer than the 507. At street speeds I would expect no appreciable difference.

As for crashes, you might have a medic in a minute at the track, won’t be much longer on the street. What happens after the first responder gets there is probably more important. Shannonville and Grandbend aren’t very close to a trama centre.
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Crash on the 507 and you won't have a paramedic in a minute. Lots of places that are fun to ride can easily be 20 minutes plus for first paramedic to arrive.
 
GreyGhost said:
Crash on the 507 and you won't have a paramedic in a minute. Lots of places that are fun to ride can easily be 20 minutes plus for first paramedic to arrive.
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But you might get an Ornge ride to Sunnybrook from the side of the 507. Probably not from Grand Bend.
 
Someone asked about lower DUI

1695609706580.png

Impaired driving causing bodily harm has also been on a generally downward trend, despite a slight increase from 2018. In 2019, police recorded 483 incidents of impaired driving causing bodily harm, 26 more than the dip in 2018. However, the rate of impaired driving causing bodily harm in 2019 (1.28 incidents per 100,000 population) was half the rate of 10 years earlier and nearly five times lower than in 1986 (6.06 incidents per 100,000 population).
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Impaired driving in Canada, 2019

Using data from the Uniform Crime Reporting Survey (UCR), this Juristat article presents data on police-reported impaired driving, including data specific to drug-impaired driving. More precisely, it examines the trends of impaired driving in Canada, the provinces and territories and in Census...
www150.statcan.gc.ca www150.statcan.gc.ca
 
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MacDoc said:
Someone asked about lower DUI

View attachment 63354


Impaired driving in Canada, 2019

Using data from the Uniform Crime Reporting Survey (UCR), this Juristat article presents data on police-reported impaired driving, including data specific to drug-impaired driving. More precisely, it examines the trends of impaired driving in Canada, the provinces and territories and in Census...
www150.statcan.gc.ca www150.statcan.gc.ca
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So from 1985 to 2000 good progress was made. From 2000 to 2023, almost zero change.
 
Team_Green said:
We're all entitled to our opinion but If you crash at the track there is medical right there. If you crash on the street there isn't. If you crash on the street you have multiple objects you can hit. On the track, you have run off area designed to slow you and the bike down.

If you think the street is safer, good for you.
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IMG_0112.jpegYes, medical assistance is at the track. That's me in the middle. Do you know the track?
IMG_1834.jpegDo you know where this picture hangs? RIP Maxime. This kid had every opportunity in racing, the absolute best training in the world, you have no idea. Race tracks are dangerous, run off areas are dangerous especially if your bike hits you after the slide. I'm not going to argue anymore, you have your opinion and I have my experience.
 
nobbie48 said:
It would be intersting to have a track event where style is more important than speed. Track ballet? Personal best in no traffic? Move up if interested and skills show improvement. Goldwings welcome.
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This pretty much describes a track day if your attitude is in the right place. You don't have to go balls out all the time on the track. My brain isn't wired that way, but you could have a very good time just riding around at 70% at a much lower threshold of risk. From my experience, single-rider crashes basically don't happen at all on track if you're riding a suitably maintained machine at 70 or 80% of your ability.


Mad Mike said:
Maybe seasoned vets can chime in with a clear POV.

I'll start. I don't perceive any more risk today than I did 10 years ago.
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I also don't think the streets are any more risky than when I started riding 20 years ago, and that's despite my wife being in a serious accident with a left-turning car in an intersection this year. One thing that's worth considering is that this type of risk evaluation is highly subjective, and by definition, you are 10 or 20 years older than you used to be. Your perception of risk naturally changes as you age, and it usually becomes more conservative.


Mad Mike said:
But you might get an Ornge ride to Sunnybrook from the side of the 507. Probably not from Grand Bend.
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I was witness to an Ornge flight from Calabogie Motorsports Park this season. I'm not sure which side of the risk argument that supports, but good track organizers know what to say to get the rotors in motion very quickly. I'm pretty sure Sheena had the call made before any first responders would have even shown up for a crash on any of the roads in the surrounding area.


I watch quite a few motorcycle crash compilations on YouTube. It might sound morbid, but they can be educational and oddly reassuring. The takeaway from those compilations is:
- Don't ride drunk or impaired, ever
- Don't ride with your moron street stunter 'friends' in a pack of 50 or 100
- Don't ride double or triple the speed limit. Especially don't do so at night, or around traffic, or on surface streets
- Don't make passes just before the crest of a blind hill, or into blind corners
- If you're in an area where is culturally acceptable to lane split, do so at a speed your mother would consider reasonable, as compared to the traffic around you. Don't lane split at all if you're in an area where it isn't acceptable.
- Don't escalate simple traffic situations, even if someone else is clearly at fault
- Wear a helmet, jacket, gloves and real boots, at a minimum

When contemplating accident stats, consider that a very large percentage of them will involve one or more of the above factors which are totally avoidable if you simply choose not to be an idiot.

The other major theme that you will see from accident compilation videos is that a disturbingly large number of riders simply ride straight off the road at reasonable speeds in very simple curves. You can call this target fixation, or riding too fast for their abilities, but this is the sort of thing that practical rider training (including on-track) is good at preventing.
 
I also agree with the "buy a dual-sport" option. Keeps your insurance going, gives you something to ride if you wish, and most importantly opens up a new kind of riding experience.
I'll be picking up some type of dual-sport before next season just to open up some new riding experiences.
 
Ash said:
I watch quite a few motorcycle crash compilations on YouTube. It might sound morbid, but they can be educational and oddly reassuring. The takeaway from those compilations is:
- Don't ride drunk or impaired, ever
- Don't ride with your moron street stunter 'friends' in a pack of 50 or 100
- Don't ride double or triple the speed limit. Especially don't do so at night, or around traffic, or on surface streets
- Don't make passes just before the crest of a blind hill, or into blind corners
- If you're in an area where is culturally acceptable to lane split, do so at a speed your mother would consider reasonable, as compared to the traffic around you. Don't lane split at all if you're in an area where it isn't acceptable.
- Don't escalate simple traffic situations, even if someone else is clearly at fault
- Wear a helmet, jacket, gloves and real boots, at a minimum
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When i was without a motorcycle for a few months or sometimes in spring, i'll watch those dandanthefireman vids. It does refresh the memory to things to look out for...somewhat reimplanting the patterns to look out for.

In terms of danger in the past 10 years, i'd say it has gotten worse over the time i've had a bike (8ish years). I see on my commutes a lot more people not paying attention. The traffic pattern tends to be more erratic, people are more impatient and more aggressive. Everytime i drive in brampton i see more crazy stunts (i lived there for about 5 years so i've seen a lot of weirdness but it's reached another level).

The general psyche on the road has shifted. Just means people are even more out there to get you ;) (or at least that's what i tell myself)
 
Been meaning to make the exact same thread - I'll enjoy reading the posts. This year I've been on my bike maybe a total of 5 times - each time a quick 20 min ride. For me it's a mix of nowhere to really ride way up north aside from highways which are never fun, are full of police - not to mention the wildlife. Even had my bike up for sale a few times this summer but could never pull the trigger and actually sell it. Instead I just see it everytime I leave the house and think about the insurance Im paying while it collects dust.

I've been in 2 very bad accidents when I was younger and was EXTREMELY lucky I didn't end up worse. One of which was completely out of my control (left turner that drove right into me). I know full well if I got into the same type of accidents being older now I sure as hell wouldn't bounce back as fast. For me life is good - health is good, in good shape, career is doing well etc. It's hard to throw that away at the possibility of a twist of the wrist to get hit by some idiot not paying attention, or hitting an animal, or getting a 50+ ticket which would just **** my life over - and for what? Bit of adrenaline? This year it's hard to justify.
 
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Mad Mike said:
2 types of riding - street riding is done within the limits of the law (more or less), track riding which is done at the limits of the rider.

At race speeds, the track will be safer than the 507. At street speeds I would expect no appreciable difference.

As for crashes, you might have a medic in a minute at the track, won’t be much longer on the street. What happens after the first responder gets there is probably more important. Shannonville and Grandbend aren’t very close to a trama centre.
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meh. there's one at Kingston ON? That's under an hour.
 
Interesting conversation.

I have been a victim of mental hesitation often enough to realize that I am not the kind of rider who appreciates roaming randomly. I have understood my emotions and mental state before I go out for a ride, and there is a drastic difference in my enthusiasm for a ride I have planned in advance (ideally, routes, hotels, places to stop & photography, places to eat) vs a ride that is off the cuff, the destination is the journey etc etc. mentality.

I like the preparation, and the planning. That is part of the experience for me.

I am of the opinion that it is truly important to understand your temperament, attitude and preferences behind a motorcycle ride, to truly enjoy the ride. I always thought that the best kinds of riders are the ones that wake up in the morning, gear up and wander off into the sunset, exploring as they go. I don't suffer from that misconception anymore. Riding is a very personal thing (to me) and I have come to accept what I enjoy, and what I don't, so I tend to stay focused on riding to my pleasure state and not to satisfy my ego or guilt.


Additionally, over the last two years, our 2-year-old has kept us occupied which inherently limits the time I get out to ride.
 
I appreciate the different POVs around this "mental hesitation" issue.

I've definitely had off-days on the bike where things were just not flowing. For me, just backing off and bringing the level down from 7/10ths to 5/10ths is enough for me to feel more comfortable. The people I ride with always wait so there's never any pressure to keep up.

Easier to do on the street, harder to do on the trail once you've already committed to a certain difficulty level since going slower sometimes gets you in more trouble. I guess there's always the turn around option?
 
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