Weird pinging problem | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Weird pinging problem

TK4 said:
Whoah - I forgot its a copsicle. How many TOTAL kms on it and how many times has the odometer been around ?
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Been around, I doubt it, electric gauge.
I've got around 87000 miles now so 140,000
 
bitzz said:
Bad gas can leave deposits on the plug, like on the electrodes of those plugs in your picture. "BAD" gas is usually water, that can sit in the bottom of the tank (water is heavier than gas) for months and months.
Easy solution to water in your tank: add alcohol and stir... or drain the tank.

Air molecules DO NOT change size. The DENSITY of the air molecules change... that's why your EFI bike has a MAP sensor. The MAP sensor measures air density in the manifold ( MAP = manifold absolute pressure)
Does the term "grasping at straws" mean anything to you?
If you think "carbon" may be the problem, do a compression test. If the two readings are within 10% of each other, carbon is NOT the problem.
If you think rings might be the problem: do a second compression test, but put a squirt of oil down the spark plug hole. If the rings are sacked the oil will help them seal better and on the second compression test, a "WET" compression test, the compression will go UP. If your rings are sacked the bike will burn oil and you'll be down on power.
What is the mileage on the bike?
Screw testing the tank for leaks... what is the pressure at the fuel rail: where it matters.
A "stock" Harley DOES NOT need or even WANT anything but regular fuel. Octane is to control pre-ignition caused by compression. Your stock Harley has a compression ratio of 8 1/2 or 9 to 1. "Regular" fuel is good up to about 10-10 1/2 to 1. The thing will run on kerosene if you could get it started.
Ethanol is NOT the problem either.
If you don't have a compression tester, if you want to ride up here I'll lend you one... or do the tests.
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Interesting, I didn't know about the bad gas part sitting in the tank. I might just drain it out, and replace with new fuel.
Thanks for the offer, I'll get back to you once I do some of my grasping at straws :ROFLMAO: :rolleyes:
 
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With 140,000 miles on the clock, it probably needs rings... just cuz
... and a valve job
... and valve guides and seals
... and a bunch of other stuff.....

... but none of that is causing it to ping. It would actually decrease it's propensity to ping.... unless the rings are COMPLETELY sacked, but then it would smoke, burn oil and be hard to start.
Was it doing this before you replaced the MAP sensor? or did you replace the MAP sensor trying to FIX this?
A burned exhaust valve can make it ping... but like TK4 says, until you've investigated the basics, you, and everyone else, are just guessing.

OH, and I was inferring the Harley shop was grasping at straws telling you air molecules got bigger. That's priceless. (Rolling eyes emoji)
 
TK4 said:
Back in the day Toronto Police Services were given some Honda CB750Ps and some 750 Automatics to try out. A friend of a friend was a motorcycle mechanic for TPS, he said the cops purposely broke them because they weren't HDs.
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Back in 2011 I spotted TPS trying out the BMWs downtown.

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bitzz said:
With 140,000 miles on the clock, it probably needs rings... just cuz
... and a valve job
... and valve guides and seals
... and a bunch of other stuff.....

... but none of that is causing it to ping. It would actually decrease it's propensity to ping.... unless the rings are COMPLETELY sacked, but then it would smoke, burn oil and be hard to start.
Was it doing this before you replaced the MAP sensor? or did you replace the MAP sensor trying to FIX this?
A burned exhaust valve can make it ping... but like TK4 says, until you've investigated the basics, you, and everyone else, are just guessing.

OH, and I was inferring the Harley shop was grasping at straws telling you air molecules got bigger. That's priceless. (Rolling eyes emoji)
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I've kinda felt the rings are due, without knowing too much about all this.

As far as I knowing when the pinging happened, it was when troubleshooting the MAP sensor, not before. First time ever I heard the bike make that sound. The issue, I can't remember exactly what I was doing at the time or stage of the troubleshooting to try and narrow this down.I did end up replacing the senor with an aftermarket one. It stopped the idling issue, but I wonder if it's not a good senor, fix one thing cause a problem someplace else. Which is partly why I want to put back the original sensor.

I wasn't sure where the straws were directed, but thanks! Kinda thought it might be towards HD, they are good at that, but mind you it was somewhat helpful conversation as usually they don't want to just talk about troubleshooting and rather do the work.. etc. etc. (you know the answer "bring it in we'll take a look at it.." deal)
But now that it's Durham HD and replaced Mackkies they seem at bit better about stuff like this.
 
Hey guys some interesting news

So I'm just still failing around with this and poking at it.

I decided to try a can of SeaFoam, the stuff you spray into the throttle body, to clean carbon. Very skeptical. Created a bunch of white smoke. You are to let it soak for a bit then go for a ride. Did that, and nothing really happened. Suppose to see more white smoke. Seems like snake oil. Stilled pinged.

Next, after trying that I ran the tank to empty. Thinking what @bitzz said about bad gas, and water separating. I siphoned out as much as I could without taking the tank off and pouring it out. While I was doing that I decided to investigate the fuel regulator and filter I put in. I read something about if the regulator didn't make a good seal could lead to a vacuum leak. Well from what I saw it wasn't sitting as snug as it should. Pulled out the old regulator and sure enough it fit better..sigh. Put back the old one. I'm kind ****** at this because HD has a habit of selling parts which have been opened. This was one of them.
After putting it back together I bought some 94 octane gas filled up the tank, and put in the HD ethanol fixer they gave me.

Went for a ride. It pinged once near the beginning of the ride. After that it was ok. I did some normal riding and revving it etc. So far so good.
I burned through it pretty much to almost empty.
Today I filled up with 91 at Shell. Ran well better then before. Again tried to make it ping. For the most part it was fine, pinged twice, not as bad as before and nowhere near the frequency. Feel like I am getting someplace on this.

I think the next tank will be more telling, in case there is still some 94 mixed in there.

I'm still kinda interested in trying to find a method to completely empty the tank in case there is still some bad crap in there.

If this really comes down to bad gas I will be shocked as I've never experienced this in any vehicle.
 
Nice! Run 91 in it. 94 has higher ethanol content. You would probably be just fine with 87.
 
Actually, if the working theory is there is water in the tank, he wants MORE ethanol.

sburns: the best way to remove water from the bottom of the tank is to remove the tank and drain it. If you're not going to do that: run the thing as low on fuel as you dare, go to the drug store and get a bottle of rubbing alcohol (drug store rubbing alcohol is a LOT cheaper than HD "ethanol" treatment and I betcha it's the same stuff) and pour half a cup in the tank and slosh it around, then put 5 liters of gas in the tank and ride. Do that a couple of times.
The idea is the alcohol is going to emulsify the water, put it in suspension in the gas so you can burn it.
 
bitzz said:
Actually, if the working theory is there is water in the tank, he wants MORE ethanol.

sburns: the best way to remove water from the bottom of the tank is to remove the tank and drain it. If you're not going to do that: run the thing as low on fuel as you dare, go to the drug store and get a bottle of rubbing alcohol (drug store rubbing alcohol is a LOT cheaper than HD "ethanol" treatment and I betcha it's the same stuff) and pour half a cup in the tank and slosh it around, then put 5 liters of gas in the tank and ride. Do that a couple of times.
The idea is the alcohol is going to emulsify the water, put it in suspension in the gas so you can burn it.
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Thanks, I do plan to take the tank off and well... just tip it over etc to pour out whatever is in there. Something like that.
 
Wingboy said:
Nice! Run 91 in it. 94 has higher ethanol content. You would probably be just fine with 87.
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Manual says 91, see above. I've run 87 a couple of times. Didn't get the same milage out of the tank though. But othewise it seemed ok. Maybe from what @bitzz is saying, I should run fuel with ethanol to sqawsh whatever is in there, is that what you are suggesting as well.
 
...but water in the tank USUALLY doesn't cause pinging... it COULD... but usually water in the fuel just makes it run like crap.
Ping is usually timing or lean... and if was lean because the water is displacing fuel, it would run like crap... if at all.
 
bitzz said:
...but water in the tank USUALLY doesn't cause pinging... it COULD... but usually water in the fuel just makes it run like crap.
Ping is usually timing or lean... and if was lean because the water is displacing fuel, it would run like crap... if at all.
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Agreed. I don't think it's a fuel issue. Check every intake/exhaust connection, every fuel system connection and I'd have the fuel pump checked (my buddies went bad while in Kentucky and he had a similar pinging issue but granted had a few other motor issues). Rings shouldn't be the issue, that's not to say they aren't due for a replace, but if the rider behind you doesn't smell oil burning your rings are likely still ok.
 
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