We Know you Ride, But do you Shoot? | Page 88 | GTAMotorcycle.com

We Know you Ride, But do you Shoot?

Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Some of you may find the following, an interesting read.


(link: http://bearingarms.com/americas-gunsurgency/)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.
If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of violence.
Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion.
Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations.
These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a armed mugger to do his job.
That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.
Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury.
This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.
The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter.
It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.
It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

Written by an American. Shocking.

There's so many flaws in this logic that I don't even know where to start....

Semper Fi.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Deflect and discredit the author........shocking

Stupid Americans that think more guns will make things better are the problem. Stupid Americans that let Ted Nugent affect their politics are the problem.

The idea that if both parties have guns means that reason is the only way to interact is stupid. It's incredibly stupid. There's an overwhelming mountain of evidence to suggest that is simply not true. Anyone who suggests it is an idiot, anyone who believes it is an idiot.

I'm not against guns, I'm not against responsible gun ownership, I don't support banning or confiscating anything.... but anyone who denies that there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun related violence in the US is a moron.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Are there any moderates on this thread?

Stupid Americans that think more guns will make things better are the problem. Stupid Americans that let Ted Nugent affect their politics are the problem.

The idea that if both parties have guns means that reason is the only way to interact is stupid. It's incredibly stupid. There's an overwhelming mountain of evidence to suggest that is simply not true. Anyone who suggests it is an idiot, anyone who believes it is an idiot.

I'm not against guns, I'm not against responsible gun ownership, I don't support banning or confiscating anything.... but anyone who denies that there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun related violence in the US is a moron.

I'm as moderate as a gun owner gets, it seems. Voted Liberal, even though I got more rifles than most. I think that's enough to get me lynched by gun nuts. Had to stop reading CGN. Some topics were interesting, but the ones on gun crime and/or politics... oh boy.

I feel the same as caboose, he put it succinctly.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

but anyone who denies that there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and gun related violence in the US is a moron.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Those exercising it will just use the easy to obtain tool. Even with all that, for every gun death in the US in a given year (and I am including suicides and gang killings, where other means would have been found anyway), there are 30 reported cases of law abiding citizens using firearms to defend themselves against violent crime. You can imagine how many of them go unreported.

Now, I have a little side-note on that figure because the constitutionalist and gun-grabbing camps use two different figures. Constitutionalists are citing a figure of about 1,000,000 legitimate cases of firearms used in self-defence in the US. The gun-grabbers are citing a figure of about 100,000, so 10% of that. If you are wondering why there is such a discrepancy, it's pretty simple. The gun-grabbers are using 100,000 cases where the assailant got wounded or killed. The constitutionalists are also citing 90% of cases where just brandishing the firearm stopped the attack and there was no need to discharge the firearm.

Think about that for a bit.. With all the cliches about the violent, gun-toting Americans, in 90% of cases where those people carrying firearms were attacked violently, they chose not to take violent action. I'm betting that in an overwhelming majority of those other 10%, the potential victim wasn't given any other options to resolve the situation without violence.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

It's pretty clear everybody should be carrying guns at all times. If you live in the US. Why is this still being debated? In this country chances of violence being perpetrated upon yourself may be slimmer but why gamble? Everybody should carry guns here too. But global is really where it's at these days. Everybody everywhere should be carrying guns always, can't be too safe.
Every country should have the nuclear bomb. That would eradicate any possible international incidences. So guns and nukes it is. And maybe a roll of yellow caution tape.
 
Last edited:
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Where there is a will, there is a way. Those exercising it will just use the easy to obtain tool. Even with all that, for every gun death in the US in a given year (and I am including suicides and gang killings, where other means would have been found anyway), there are 30 reported cases of law abiding citizens using firearms to defend themselves against violent crime. You can imagine how many of them go unreported.

Now, I have a little side-note on that figure because the constitutionalist and gun-grabbing camps use two different figures. Constitutionalists are citing a figure of about 1,000,000 legitimate cases of firearms used in self-defence in the US. The gun-grabbers are citing a figure of about 100,000, so 10% of that. If you are wondering why there is such a discrepancy, it's pretty simple. The gun-grabbers are using 100,000 cases where the assailant got wounded or killed. The constitutionalists are also citing 90% of cases where just brandishing the firearm stopped the attack and there was no need to discharge the firearm.

Think about that for a bit.. With all the cliches about the violent, gun-toting Americans, in 90% of cases where those people carrying firearms were attacked violently, they chose not to take violent action. I'm betting that in an overwhelming majority of those other 10%, the potential victim wasn't given any other options to resolve the situation without violence.

That's completely irrelevant.

You can't acknowledge the instances in which having a gun prevented a crime while ignoring the preposterous frequency in which guns are involved in crime in the US. I will acknowledge that in some cases a gun will have kept someone from being hurt/robbed/etc. I will also acknowledge that the ridiculous ease in which one can attain a gun (legally and illegally) in the US has a direct correlation to their per capita gun violence rates.

You have to look at the totality of the gun culture down south. You also have to look at it like a religion. Trying to convince them that they don't need guns and guns won't help anything is like trying to convince someone they don't need God and God is only making things worse. It's a pseudo-religious ideology that can't be reason​ed with.

The stats are available for anyone to see. They've been posted over and over and over so I'm not going to bother posting any references again.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

It's pretty clear everybody should be carrying guns at all times. If you live in the US. Why is this still being debated? In this country chances of violence being perpetrated upon yourself may be slimmer but why gamble? Everybody should carry guns here too. But global is really where it's at these days. Everybody everywhere should be carrying guns always, can't be too safe.
Every country should have the nuclear bomb. That would eradicate any possible international incidences. So guns and bombs it is. And maybe a roll of yellow caution tape.

I read this before your edit and I was just about to respond saying that every country should have nuclear weapons, then we wouldn't have any more wars.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

I read this before your edit and I was just about to respond saying that every country should have nuclear weapons, then we wouldn't have any more wars.

My history is a little weak, is the USA the only country to deploy the nuke on another country? I think so. Best country in the world. Fine people.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

My history is a little weak, is the USA the only country to deploy the nuke on another country? I think so. Best country in the world. Fine people.

Yes, that's correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Hell let's just ban everything.
Ban guns, knives, bats, rocks, forks, sarcasm, and bad words like Christmas.
Then everyone should be safe and no one will have their feelings hurt.

We also better ban alcohol, tobacco, cars and motorcycles since people are killed by those things everyday and technically we don't need them either. We can go back to riding horses and walking everywhere right?

Banning or restricting guns will improve NOTHING. Drugs are illegal, banned substances and those are super hard to obtain aren't they?
 
Last edited:
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Has anyone in this thread advocated banning anything? I'm not sure who you're responding to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Ez pz view of guns: if others have em, I want em too. In the US, this logic only leads to more gun ownership.

More guns = more gun crime??? Well uh, duh. More cars, more accidents.. more fast food more heart disease, more pools more kiddies drowning... 1+1=2.

Its too late to ban anything down there. Too many guns already out there. They could stop manufacturing today and still need 100 years to make a dent in ownership numbers.

I like Canada much more for this reason... fewer of my fellow citizens have firearms, so I consider myself at an advantage. ;-)
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Hell let's just ban everything.
Ban guns, knives, bats, rocks, forks, sarcasm, and bad words like Christmas.
Then everyone should be safe and no one will have their feelings hurt.

We also better ban alcohol, tobacco, cars and motorcycles since people are killed by those things everyday and technically we don't need them either. We can go back to riding horses and walking everywhere right?

Banning or restricting guns will improve NOTHING. Drugs are illegal, banned substances and those are super hard to obtain aren't they?

Of all the things listed only one was designed expressly to kill a living thing all others may have that unfortunate side effect if used incorrectly. Did that needed pointing out?
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Of all the things listed only one was designed expressly to kill a living thing all others may have that unfortunate side effect if used incorrectly. Did that needed pointing out?

Well no its likely thats Bats(clubs, sticks) and Knifes when first crafted (as apposed to found) were expressly used for hunting (until specialization occurred they were probably used for anything that required a cut or stabbing) but either way its not an argument against ownership. The first proto firearm was most assuredly designed for to specifically kill a human but so what things evolve and began to be used recreationally. Personally i think we should bring back parlor guns :)
 
Last edited:
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Oh, ya I forgot about the killing bats a Sportcheck:rolleyes:
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Oh, ya I forgot about the killing bats a Sportcheck:rolleyes:

$49.99 on special

bat2.jpg


The origin of bats and clubs still comes from improvised weaponry. But i'm talking deep deep history. The point is the origin of a invention does not determine hows it will be used in the future. Space exploration traces its origins directly from gun powder.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

$49.99 on special

bat2.jpg


The origin of bats and clubs still comes from improvised weaponry. But i'm talking deep deep history. The point is the origin of a invention does not determine hows it will be used in the future. Space exploration traces its origins directly from gun powder.

Well, people are advocating for gun ownership because in the future they might need to protect themselves from other gun owners. We're not seeing that same level of fervor surrounding bat, knife or car ownership.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Well, people are advocating for gun ownership because in the future they might need to protect themselves from other gun owners. We're not seeing that same level of fervor surrounding bat, knife or car ownership.

Knife crime is a bigger issue in Canada than gun crime and there is a pretty big Fervor in the UK about knifes at the moment and has been for the last few years.

I'm not advocating gun ownership for anything other than hunting or shooting at targets or collecting I guess if thats your thing. The states is a whole different ball game than here but its a minority of gun owners that is advocating gun ownership for protections against terrorists and active shooters cause its it legally not practical here or even required. I have heard Canadian carry advocates speak out of both sides of their mouth on this on one side say they need it for protection and in the same breath point out the low levels of gun crime we have. Thats not to say i would not support someones use of a firearm in protection of ones life's or others depending on the scenario.
 
Re: We know you ride, but do you Shoot?

Ez pz view of guns: if others have em, I want em too. In the US, this logic only leads to more gun ownership.

More guns = more gun crime??? Well uh, duh. More cars, more accidents.. more fast food more heart disease, more pools more kiddies drowning... 1+1=2.

Its too late to ban anything down there. Too many guns already out there. They could stop manufacturing today and still need 100 years to make a dent in ownership numbers.

I like Canada much more for this reason... fewer of my fellow citizens have firearms, so I consider myself at an advantage. ;-)

Apparently 1 in 4 Canadian homes have a firearm. I think the major difference between us an Americans is we don't have the bravado that comes with gun ownership they do. Most of us owners are pretty humble about ownership to outsiders, most of us use our guns for target practice or hunting (not protection as seems to be the reason why most of my American friends own a gun).
 

Back
Top Bottom