Understood. That place will be fine but also probably rammed. Most days at my range I’m the only one there.
We Know you Ride, But do you Shoot?
- Thread starter Triple
- Start date
Understood. That place will be fine but also probably rammed. Most days at my range I’m the only one there.
Mikedezo44
Well-known member
Very interesting and telling first hand account about handgun freeze from an officer (reddit)
As an officer, this outrages me profusely. Not because I take issue with legal gun owners possessing firearms but because it is an absolute farce.
In the area I work, gun crimes are rampant and the courts do nothing but a slap on the wrist. I can't stress the number of times that I or my coworkers have laid charges of unlawful possession of a firearm, dangerous use of a firearm or something similar and the Crown prosecutor either withdraws it completely or let's them plead it down to something so pitiful that it wasn't worth our effort. Not just the logistical effort of putting a case together but also the physical effort of putting ourselves at risk to get these guns just for the criminals to procure them again.
I don't hold the Crown fully responsible, they are overworked and understaffed but they do carry at least some of the blame of our justice system. I've seen them withdraw slam dunk cases because they don't want to put in the effort.
The other difficult part is the awful case law that's been created. For example, every firearm we seize that is related to an offense we need to have tested to prove that it is in fact a firearm. So if a criminal uses a firearm in an offense and is smart enough to remove the bolt or the firing pin and hides it, we can no longer technically prove that it was a working firearm without it in working order. Same goes with homemade firearms and same goes for offenses where we know the suspect and that they used a firearm based on statements but they've now hidden the firearm and we can't locate it. Usually, it ostensibly having been a firearm would be enough but an overworked Crown just sees lots of time spent fighting in court.
The thing about Crown prosecutors now is that they get promotions to better firms by getting a good win/lose ratio. Usually that entails something close to 0 losses. As withdrawn charges don't count as a loss, if they think that they could lose it, they'll just kill it and not risk the loss.
Another major failure is the financial side of the justice system. Nearly every single person who is charged with an offense and is held in custody is released on an Release Order. Release Orders have conditions on them that the accused needs to abide by or they will be charged with another offense. One of those conditions is that failing to attend court on the assigned date will make the accused legally required to pay the court the amount prescribed on the order. The amount ranges based on the accused ability to pay it but I have never heard of a single person compelled to pay the money they owe. The same thing goes for anything that isn't being physically held in custody. Written apologies required by court, community service, pretty well every kind of debt repayment, etc. The court fights for nothing.
I routinely see the system negatively affecting first time offenders because they don't know how to abuse the system or that they can. Whereas career criminals know full well that all they have to do is avoid the system and it struggles to work on them.
A statistic that would be vitally important for Canadians to know would be how many charges are laid vs. how many actually go through court. Personally I've lost count of how many charges I've laid against people. I've been in court once. Everything else has been withdrawn or plead down to a lesser charge. Nearly all the officers I work with have experienced the same. And by "plead down" I mean serious charges dropped down to something that doesn't even capture the seriousness of the original offense. I've seen aggravated assault charges plead down to a basic mischief charge with no jail time.
In my area, you pretty much need to kill someone in order to be prosecuted. Either that or do a basic traffic offense.
As an officer, this outrages me profusely. Not because I take issue with legal gun owners possessing firearms but because it is an absolute farce.
In the area I work, gun crimes are rampant and the courts do nothing but a slap on the wrist. I can't stress the number of times that I or my coworkers have laid charges of unlawful possession of a firearm, dangerous use of a firearm or something similar and the Crown prosecutor either withdraws it completely or let's them plead it down to something so pitiful that it wasn't worth our effort. Not just the logistical effort of putting a case together but also the physical effort of putting ourselves at risk to get these guns just for the criminals to procure them again.
I don't hold the Crown fully responsible, they are overworked and understaffed but they do carry at least some of the blame of our justice system. I've seen them withdraw slam dunk cases because they don't want to put in the effort.
The other difficult part is the awful case law that's been created. For example, every firearm we seize that is related to an offense we need to have tested to prove that it is in fact a firearm. So if a criminal uses a firearm in an offense and is smart enough to remove the bolt or the firing pin and hides it, we can no longer technically prove that it was a working firearm without it in working order. Same goes with homemade firearms and same goes for offenses where we know the suspect and that they used a firearm based on statements but they've now hidden the firearm and we can't locate it. Usually, it ostensibly having been a firearm would be enough but an overworked Crown just sees lots of time spent fighting in court.
The thing about Crown prosecutors now is that they get promotions to better firms by getting a good win/lose ratio. Usually that entails something close to 0 losses. As withdrawn charges don't count as a loss, if they think that they could lose it, they'll just kill it and not risk the loss.
Another major failure is the financial side of the justice system. Nearly every single person who is charged with an offense and is held in custody is released on an Release Order. Release Orders have conditions on them that the accused needs to abide by or they will be charged with another offense. One of those conditions is that failing to attend court on the assigned date will make the accused legally required to pay the court the amount prescribed on the order. The amount ranges based on the accused ability to pay it but I have never heard of a single person compelled to pay the money they owe. The same thing goes for anything that isn't being physically held in custody. Written apologies required by court, community service, pretty well every kind of debt repayment, etc. The court fights for nothing.
I routinely see the system negatively affecting first time offenders because they don't know how to abuse the system or that they can. Whereas career criminals know full well that all they have to do is avoid the system and it struggles to work on them.
A statistic that would be vitally important for Canadians to know would be how many charges are laid vs. how many actually go through court. Personally I've lost count of how many charges I've laid against people. I've been in court once. Everything else has been withdrawn or plead down to a lesser charge. Nearly all the officers I work with have experienced the same. And by "plead down" I mean serious charges dropped down to something that doesn't even capture the seriousness of the original offense. I've seen aggravated assault charges plead down to a basic mischief charge with no jail time.
In my area, you pretty much need to kill someone in order to be prosecuted. Either that or do a basic traffic offense.
DownUnder
Well-known member
Sounds like the system is rotten and broken to the core.
Seems like diverting the buyback money to court would make a lot more difference. No surprise there. Diverting the buyback money to almost anything imaginable would have a bigger impact on crime.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I just read bill C5, looks like JT is a bit confused about guns.
He just eliminated mandatory sentences for a truckload of criminal gun crimes.
Kinda rubs me he wrong way... harden the rules for law abiding gun owners, soften the penalties for criminals using guns.
Library of the Canadian Parliament › default › en_CA
Legislative Summary of Bill C-5: An Act to amend the Criminal Code and ...
DownUnder
Well-known member
It’s been pointed out to the current federal govt , by the guys in charge of investigating gun smuggling and gun crime that this new law will do the net sum of f all . So we smoke and mirror our way around it . Oy vey .
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
Like most things related to government it is about optics, "positions" and public relations. Whether or not something actually works is secondary. The average citizen doesn't not know or understand the intricacies as to how the criminal justice system works, or doesn't work. We assume people charged with crimes are accountable and pay the price, but as I understand it about 98% of charges are plead down or dropped. However, in practical terms the court system is overwhelmed with case loads, there are already significant delays in bringing people to trial and there is no capacity to increase the number of cases actually brought to trial. Are we willing to pay the cost of expanding the court system?
The other thing is accountability, or the complete lack of it. If something doesn't work, or is broken, try to find out who is responsible for this and why it has not been fixed. The recent RCMP testimony re their involvement in the gun massacre in NS or in the freedom convoy is all smoke and mirrors "you can't pin this on me" and "we did nothing wrong" and, of course "we will change nothing".
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think the USA has demonstrated softer and gentler approaches to crime have simply made more crime.
In what should be no surprise, police are blaming the dead guy for getting shot. They attack a gunsmith in his gun shop and shoot him dead because there are guns. They apparently never presented a search warrant and stole cash. Situation stinks.
The only guy likely to tell the truth in that investigation may be the customer standing there. He knows what happened in the gun shop and eventually his testimony will be heard. Not that it matters at all, the officer will likely never face charges , and if he does a chance of conviction is pretty remote.
Pretty poorly handled from what I have read.
Pretty poorly handled from what I have read.
According to JT, "tactical" equals black and "assault rifle" equals semi-auto. He makes his own definitions that make no sense to anyone that has touched a gun.
nope. they went on another 'scary looking' + movie/video game guns ban-spree. Benelli M4 is on there, pump action/semi-auto tube-fed shotgun.
anymore dangerous than my rem 870 or any semi-auto shotgun? not at all.
there's more than a few rimfire 22s that were banned just because they were based off or looked like another scary black gun.
There have been rumors that swirl around the "customer". He may have been an undercover cop. I haven't seen any evidence either way. I would hope that if they were independent they would provide their version to the family/public but I understand not wanting your name forever linked to this tragedy.
but for some reason, the liberal govt keeps showcasing 'crime gun stats'. but what's a crime gun? literally any gun, replica, airsoft or bb gun found at the scene of a crime. could have nothing to do with the crime, could be a piece of wood carved to look like a gun.
not kidding.
Knowing them, probably also any weapon found at an arrest. They could be hunting rifles in a safe and you get arrested for drug possession and that props up their stats even if they are essentially unrelated.
Relax
Well-known member
Hopefully none of them have watched any westerns or The Road Warrior, or double barrelled shotguns will be the next to go.
