No one is dying quickly, the cheat makes the car pollute more which leads to respiratory issues, cancer, and other issues.
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VW deisel?? wtf...
- Thread starter crankcall
- Start date
No one is dying quickly, the cheat makes the car pollute more which leads to respiratory issues, cancer, and other issues.
The expression "fart in a wind storm" comes to mind.
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
irony. Complains of "extra" pollution on a motorcycle forum, where 95% of riders ride for pleasure, needlessly adding to pollution, not to mention the proven fact that most motorcycles pollute more per given km than an average car.
So i take it you sold your motorcycle, bought a Prius and only drive it when necessary? no?
So i take it you sold your motorcycle, bought a Prius and only drive it when necessary? no?
There is also an sense of irony by VW owners themselves as many modify their vehicles for better "performance" despite the impact to emissions. Rarely does anyone ask, how does this impact emissions. The only concern is passing government etest.
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My bikes have much better mileage than any car I've owned. And I wasn't complaining, just stating why vw is getting the smackdown
Mileage doesn't matter. The actual pollution per km is usually higher for motorcycles than cars.
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
Irony once again. Vw diesels get approximatately 30 to 50% better mpgs thab equivalent gas models. So even with "extra" diesel pollution they still pollute less according to your way of thinking. Alas, even worse for your way of thinking. Per driven km, due to lack of o2 sensors and higher fuctionjng ecu, even though your bike gets better mpg it pollutes more.
You sure are defending those vw's, i suspect you must have purchased a yellow diesel powered bug with the flower holder on the dash.
I still say the solution is in post #178
I converted my bike to run on 100% pure Agave tequila, put that in your statistics mr smart guy!
Meanwhile, planes, rockets, trains and boats are spewing out 5 trillion times more crap but we're arguing over a 2.2 liter engine.
If you guys keep pointing out how bad motos are, they might be the next banned item!
No more motorsports racing, (especially zx600's trackdays you evil polluters you!) no more drag racing etc..
How's that for a nightmare?
All because of VW owners, off with their heads i say!
On a motorcycle forum where, I am going to take a guess, 90 % of bikes have aftermarket pipes with no cats, or pretty much useless ones? It seams to be a lost post in a wrong place. Seriously.
I know you mean well, but this really will not help anyone. Makes no measurable difference to the environment, will just cost tens of thousands of jobs somewhere and keep dealers busy with a silly update. If you care to look under the surface of the issue, you'd start to understand quickly that it's nowhere near as simple as you think it is.
Ask yourself this. If VW was US company, would the EPA's action be exactly the same or as severe?
Agreed ....Lot's of misconceptions out there .... footprint is the only plus in congested cities, but even that is not a factor here, because filtering, lane splitting is illegal. Polluting toys is what we call them here ... LOL
It's possible to estimate the number of illnesses and deaths that the extra pollution would cause, and it's been done too: http://www.theguardian.com/environm...ons-estimated-to-cause-59-premature-us-deaths
But the number of injured/dead isn't the only way to gauge the level of injustice. There's also the blatant and intentional disregard for the law, and the lives harmed. On top of that, the completely contrary marketing messaging of the affected diesels as 'green' to deceive the public has ratcheted up the sense of injustice even more. For all these reasons, it's completely unlike any recall that has come before it, and possibly far worse than any of them.
As for "fart in a windstorm", that could be used to describe any murder as well, since about 1/4 million people die every day.
The point comes down to whether one believes in the value of having NOx restrictions or not. Consider Beijing and Mexico city. Or any North American city in the 70s. I'll take my emissions controls, thank you very much.
When it comes to the disproportionate pollution emitted from motorcycles, that's unfortunate but they are simply low-value targets for emissions control. That doesn't mean stop riding. That line of thinking leads to the same conclusions the most extreme Greenies have been lead to, which is to direct your whole lifestyle to preventing every possible mg of pollution! But what it means to normal people is that we acknowledge the harm of motorcycles emissions and factor it into our weighing of the pros/cons of motorcycle ownership, just like any informed decision we make every day.
Then if emissions controls are ever applied to motorcycles, it means don't complain. Just re-evaluate the pros/cons considering the new factors (cost, performance) and make your decision again.
But the number of injured/dead isn't the only way to gauge the level of injustice. There's also the blatant and intentional disregard for the law, and the lives harmed. On top of that, the completely contrary marketing messaging of the affected diesels as 'green' to deceive the public has ratcheted up the sense of injustice even more. For all these reasons, it's completely unlike any recall that has come before it, and possibly far worse than any of them.
As for "fart in a windstorm", that could be used to describe any murder as well, since about 1/4 million people die every day.
The point comes down to whether one believes in the value of having NOx restrictions or not. Consider Beijing and Mexico city. Or any North American city in the 70s. I'll take my emissions controls, thank you very much.
When it comes to the disproportionate pollution emitted from motorcycles, that's unfortunate but they are simply low-value targets for emissions control. That doesn't mean stop riding. That line of thinking leads to the same conclusions the most extreme Greenies have been lead to, which is to direct your whole lifestyle to preventing every possible mg of pollution! But what it means to normal people is that we acknowledge the harm of motorcycles emissions and factor it into our weighing of the pros/cons of motorcycle ownership, just like any informed decision we make every day.
Then if emissions controls are ever applied to motorcycles, it means don't complain. Just re-evaluate the pros/cons considering the new factors (cost, performance) and make your decision again.
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Late model bikes already have emission controls. The last couple that I've bought have closed-loop EFI and 3-way catalyst. Biggest problem is that people change out the whole exhaust system ...
OBDII can't come soon enough. (It will ... the next generation of emission standards in Europe will require it.) No more mystery fault warning lamps that forget what happened when you turn the key off. Read codes with any scan tool, not just the manufacturer-specific one.
OBDII can't come soon enough. (It will ... the next generation of emission standards in Europe will require it.) No more mystery fault warning lamps that forget what happened when you turn the key off. Read codes with any scan tool, not just the manufacturer-specific one.
No, not really.
-D-
Banned
can someone provide some info
1 super liner cross Atlantic jet co2 emissions = how many VW cars and = how many gasoline cars?
just curios
uhm GM knew they had faulty cars as did Toyota that killed people
Mercedes makes diesels...hmmm
as for all the fines they will face, won't happen...it will LOOK like they paid a fine but some behind the scenes tariff or trade deal with smooth it over.
Did everyone forget about BP...uhm they are doing just fine
did you know the US Military is the largest consumer of oil and who do you think is their #1 supplier....BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
1 super liner cross Atlantic jet co2 emissions = how many VW cars and = how many gasoline cars?
just curios
uhm GM knew they had faulty cars as did Toyota that killed people
Mercedes makes diesels...hmmm
as for all the fines they will face, won't happen...it will LOOK like they paid a fine but some behind the scenes tariff or trade deal with smooth it over.
Did everyone forget about BP...uhm they are doing just fine
did you know the US Military is the largest consumer of oil and who do you think is their #1 supplier....BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
-D-
Banned
From some of the info I read, it appears some of them did e.g. enginerds said change this to avoid x problem and management had the bean counters do the risk analysis for manageable injuries and deaths therefore they made a decision to allow a problem into the public
"Risk assessment" is an accepted engineering technique and it inherently involves recognising that there is no human activity which is completely free of risk. It also involves assigning probabilities and weighing costs versus benefits, accepting that there is a certain level of risk reduction beyond which further reduction is not economically viable. It happens ALL the time (and my job involves a lot of it). Many non-technical people don't grasp this (the infamous "think of the children" crowd) and scream "you are putting a price tag on human life" - Well, yes, because there is no other way that we know how to deal with this.
But ... when the law says "thou shalt do something this way", or "thou shalt achieve this", risk assessment shouldn't factor into it ...
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