Used Market Change?

nakkers

nakkers

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Talking to a couple of small independent shop operators and the new government process to safety a motorcycle goes into effect January 2025.


Equipment expense aside, the work involved for the tech/mechanic to follow is going to drive up costs.


Will that make that “cheap” used bike less appealing when the cost to safety can cost potentially hundreds of dollars more just to certify the thing?

Not that is matters but, grabbing my cheap toy at the end of the season, thought it was a decent deal and maybe I could capitalize on selling it for something different during the season next year. But I may find it wasn’t quite as much of an end of season deal?


No regrets really but wondering how the used market will look next spring when riders are facing larger shop bills even when the bike doesn’t need anything to certify.
 
We'll see. Lots of people cry about fire and brimstone when the big bad government forces changes. On the heavy truck side there was minimal difference for those that were doing real safeties to begin with. Pencil whipped safeties should mostly disappear overnight. I suspect the safety may cost a bit more but after the initial adjustment period I don't expect it to be far higher than now.
 
For personal vehicles (cars, light duty trucks, motorcycles) there needs to be some serious clarification and soon.
If it's just a matter of going paperless, no big deal but if it means buying a ton of useless equipment and doubling or tripling the time (and cost) required to perform the inspection it'll be a disaster. Most small shops won't be able to justify the buy-in.
Doug and his 'folks' have stepped in it again, shades of the Clean Air fiasco under previous governments.
 
Under the new system, with its enhanced documentation... Let's say you buy a vehicle and find cause to believe it should not have passed the safety inspection it received. Is it any easier to "contest" the inspection? Does a vehicle owner have any kind of access to the documentation, or is it strictly for the government's purposes?

Or to put it differently - I've bought vehicles with bad safeties before. Does DriveON do anything to actually protect me as a consumer from that? Or does it just help the MTO punish prominent offenders after the fact?

Also... I wonder if the change ends up benefiting people like me, who are confident in their ability to "field safety" a motorcycle they are looking at buying. (I don't think it's possible to do this to most passenger vehicles without getting them up in the air) Like people are more hesitant to spend the money to get a bike inspected. Do inspected bikes become more valuable, if the safeties necessarily become more comprehensive?
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Also... I wonder if the change ends up benefiting people like me, who are confident in their ability to "field safety" a motorcycle they are looking at buying. (I don't think it's possible to do this to most passenger vehicles without getting them up in the air) Like people are more hesitant to spend the money to get a bike inspected. Do inspected bikes become more valuable, if the safeties necessarily become more comprehensive?
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Lots of questions and so far no answers from the gov.
 
I’m not sure how the system works but, if a picture of a given check point isn’t up to snuff, it can be rejected and the shop needs to resubmit. It’s not immediate and rejects can happen well after the fact. 🤷‍♂️.
 
nakkers said:
I’m not sure how the system works but, if a picture of a given check point isn’t up to snuff, it can be rejected and the shop needs to resubmit. It’s not immediate and rejects can happen well after the fact. 🤷‍♂️.
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Random spot checks? Surely it's logistically impossible that they're looking at all of them
 
nakkers said:
I’m not sure how the system works but, if a picture of a given check point isn’t up to snuff, it can be rejected and the shop needs to resubmit. It’s not immediate and rejects can happen well after the fact. 🤷‍♂️.
Click to expand...
With heavy trucks isn't that what the MOT is supposed to do ? How many times have you driven past one of those stations on the highway and it's closed. All commercial vehicles are supposed to have an annual inspection and get the yellow sticker, what that has to do with smaller private vehicles beats me.
 
From a Sept. 2024 Toronto Star article..............................


=====================================

Facilities performing only light duty inspections will be able to enrol in October, and traditional MVIS Safety Standards Certificate inspections end after Dec. 31.

Just as with the prior record-keeping and Standards changes, the Ministry has done a terrible job of keeping Ontario’s motor vehicle service technicians, service facility operators, and transport fleet owners alike informed about this substantial overhaul. That the public is even more poorly informed is unsurprising.

Spec sheet requirement notwithstanding, there remained a substantial amount of fraud in the MVIS system, with limited auditing or enforcement by the Ministry, and no substantive proof available after the fact that the vehicle was inspected at all, let alone met the Standard.
Changes were needed.

The DriveON VIC program, in my opinion, swings excessively in the opposite direction.

The Province has signed on with a private contractor, U.S.-based Parsons Inc., to run the program and supply the tablets, printers, and other equipment now required to perform inspections. VICs must buy their equipment from Parsons

Detailed vehicle information and measurements must now be input into the tablet, and photos taken of the vehicle’s exterior, CMVSS (Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) compliance label, instrument cluster (where applicable), and of the readings of measurement equipment on items such as brake components during the inspection process. Techs must also plug the tablet into the data-link connector of vehicles so equipped, even though emission testing is not part of the light-duty program.

It has added an appreciable amount of time and some additional shop expense to the process.

=======================================


So, it appears that VICs have to purchase equipment from Parsons and you can be sure this is premium priced and that there will be ongoing fees for maintenance, software, support etc...... + there will be significant additional time spend uploading all the data

I can't find any info that is motorcycle specific. At present the cost of a safety is about $100 - $120. Given new requirements there will be fewer places doing safeties and the cost will probably double. The days of getting a fake or dubious safety at Rosy Toes are finished. Is that a bad thing?
 
ReSTored said:
I can't find any info that is motorcycle specific. At present the cost of a safety is about $100 - $120. Given new requirements there will be fewer places doing safeties and the cost will probably double. The days of getting a fake or dubious safety at Rosy Toes are finished. Is that a bad thing?
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That's because motorcycles are lumped in with other 'light vehicles'.
Yes, the cost (and time) will likely double or triple.
Dirty or sloppy safeties will still be out there, people always find a way to work around just like they did with Clean Air.
IMO, the provincial government, specifically the MTO has sh*t the bed on this.
 
There was an post earlier about the fake safeties applied to off road motorcycles being caught by the system and plate renewals being denied.

I don't really have a problem with paying more for a safety as I don't have to get them very often, and the now removed yearly license fee more than makes up for it. In the end I expect only MC dealers will be doing MC safeties, so trailering a bike there will be a bit of a PITA, but so be it.

I DO have a problem with saddling small business with buying expensive, proprietary tech that will likely require yearly fees that will also keep increasing.

As usual government (all levels, all parties) really flexes their incompetence muscle and their oblivious glands and rolls new regulations out that have a significant impact on small businesses without enough information or likely a finished product or system for those businesses to use or adhere to.
 
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FYI - I was talking to my local independent auto repair shop. They've been doing the new safeties since June and say it was expensive to set up and a total PITA but they really didn't have any choice. I didn't ask how much they have to charge now, but I'm certain it went up significantly.
 
ReSTored said:
The Province has signed on with a private contractor, U.S.-based Parsons Inc., to run the program and supply the tablets, printers, and other equipment now required to perform inspections. VICs must buy their equipment from Parsons
Click to expand...
Parsons Inc. is the company Ontario hired to handle the emissions tests... the one with the infloor dyno, that cost shops an arm and two legs... that only lasted a couple of years and didn't give the shops a chance to recoup that LARGE expenditure on equipment. That REALLY left a sour taste in the mouths of a lot of shop owners... and a LARGE hole in their wallet.

Well... here we go again. If you want to do safeties you buy a whole slew of overpriced Parsons equipment (that can only be serviced or sold by Parsons. Your flakey camera don't work? You don't don't do safeties till you get a new one from Parsons)
When implemented, this new test requires two guys (one guy to measure the tread depth, the other to take the picture, using the supplied tablet that is connected to the MOT mothership, of the guy measuring the tire tread depth.
The "safety" has gone from one guy and one hour to two guys and at least two hours
I've got no problem with "safeties", none what so ever... I DO have a problem with a shop using a safety as a "make work" project (which is what a lot of shops do)... and NOW we got a bunch of shops trying to recoup the monies they spent on the new Parsons equipment... that they didn't want or need.

This whole deal is to combat "fake" safeties... which I think could have been handled in a different way, that didn't cost US, the customer, a ton of extra money... like Mr. MOT: Have you ever heard of "ENFORCEMENT"? If you're in the "biz" you know a shop that will pass anything... Why doesn't Mr. MOT know that? Why does Mr. MOT do nothing till there is multiple complaints? Instead of charging US more money, how about you go after the scofflaws that are the problem?
One of the shops I am tied to WAS known for getting anything passed, BUT we did it legally and always on someone else's equipment... WE didn't run the test, we set the car up to run the test. We got 99% passed.
I just bought a truck from a licensed inspection station. the guy refused to do the safety. He said it was a conflict of interest to have the previous owner and the inspecting mechanic to be the same guy. I can respect that. The guy that did do the safety took 4 hours going over the truck... for $137.
 
And already there is talk about safeties on non standard VINs being a problem.
There is VERY little to inspect on a pre 1972 bike (basically it has to have a red light on the back and it has to stop from 32kph in a "timely" fashion... and it has to have tires)
... but I betcha it still costs $350 for a safety
 
bitzz said:
And already there is talk about safeties on non standard VINs being a problem.
There is VERY little to inspect on a pre 1972 bike (basically it has to have a red light on the back and it has to stop from 32kph in a "timely" fashion... and it has to have tires)
... but I betcha it still costs $350 for a safety
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To be fair - steering head bearings, swingarm bearings (bushings), brakes, forks and the like still have to be inspected, but it shouldn't take 2 guys with a camera and a tablet to do it. It's utter and complete b.s.
 
TK4 said:
FYI - I was talking to my local independent auto repair shop. They've been doing the new safeties since June and say it was expensive to set up and a total PITA but they really didn't have any choice. I didn't ask how much they have to charge now, but I'm certain it went up significantly.
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New wheels getting safety on Monday, i'll inquire.

It's a small shop so probably still running old school.
 
bitzz said:
I've got no problem with "safeties", none what so ever... I DO have a problem with a shop using a safety as a "make work" project (which is what a lot of shops do)... and NOW we got a bunch of shops trying to recoup the monies they spent on the new Parsons equipment... that they didn't want or need.
Click to expand...
My 83 year old mother in law was recently buying out her Honda at the end of the 5 yr lease term. The Meadowvale dealership where she originally got the car had a policy that they must do the safety if processing the buyout at their dealership. Otherwise she could find a different Honda dealership who may have a policy that could let her do the safety at her own mechanic's shop. Her car only had 24000km driven in 5 years. I took a look at the car and we all figured it might need a new rear wiper and that was it, so she went ahead and got the safety done at the Meadowvale dealership.

They found $5000 worth of items to that they said were mandatory to replace, including 4 new tires, new brakes/rotors all around and much more. It was total BS. We complained that it was total BS and they said they could make some adjustments and the price could go down to $3000. The degree of scam involved here to an elderly lady who doesn't know anything about cars was shameful.

I found another Honda dealership near the airport that didn't have the same policy and would let her get the safety done where ever she wanted. She took the car to her local mechanic and he said the only thing that needed to be done to pass the safety was the rear wiper. He said the tires and brakes were totally fine for at least 3+ years and would easily pass the Ministry requirements. He also said he sees this type of situation happen to his customers all the time. Total cost of the safety and wiper blade was $170 & lease buyout done. If I wasn't so busy posting here, I'd be formally complaining to some faceless bot to receive my form response.
 
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