Universities ?!?

[nfq]

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Fingers crossed! Got a kid finishing art school this spring.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304402104579149060054918936

2 year old article.

"Artists can have good careers, earning a middle-class income,"

who the **** strives for just middle class incomes?

and middle class in Missouri isn't middle class in New York or Toronto for that matter.

Nothing against an arts degree, so long as it isn't your first one. I'm not saying it won't lead to a decent career, but you decrease the opportunities.

 

[tricky]

Went to Ryerson for Aerospace Engineering and graduated in 2003...

Did my undergrad at Ryerson in aerospace, working on my masters now. I can't really comment on any sort of return-on-investment, but I couldn't imagine doing anything differently.

 

[Bermuda]

Pardon my cynicism, my experience through four and half years of post-secondary was not the rose-coloured ride I was lead to believe it would be.


Degrees are now a commodity, they are not at all what they used to be. Everyone and their dog gets churned through the machine to come out with one, and as a result they have all lost much of their value.

I spent 4 years at Sheridan in their Applied Degree program for info sec. My experience with the school was terrible, what I learned in the program was lacking, but my overall experience was invaluable. The programs saving grace was a coop term (8 months) which landed me the job I'm still working, 4 years later. I count myself as one of the fortunate few.

Higher education for the sake of higher education is a recipe for debt and despair. The long term math should be very carefully thought out, with likely a 10-year expectation of paying off debt (assuming a full academic career path through to becoming a lawyer, and at least 80% indebted financial support). If Law is the aim, don't start in history. Start in commerce. That's ultimately where everything ends up, and being able to think like a business is what will get you far - especially in Law.

Just need to remember that everyone gets the piece of paper. There is no real advantage in the degree anymore, that's just the price of admission to play in the big leagues. The real trial comes after the years of extortion in tuition fees, and that's a tough pill to swallow sometimes.

 

[klr_guy]

Another Ryerson grad here - Bachelor of Commerce - graduated in '94. Had a great experience there, was nice being in the downtown core.

 

[mimico_polak]

I think if I was to do it again, I'd go with a trade of some type. Reason being is that at that stage you can ALWAYS find some type of work. You're not dependent on some employer all the time for your paycheck.

I'm jealous of people that are in the trades because I'm amazed at some of them and how they can create something out of nothing. It's a great skill to have, and it's something that comes handy the rest of your life. I feel I'm too old now because I can't go and apprentice for $15/hr at a trade (as in HVAC like I'd like to do) because mortgages, bills, and life are in the way.

Or just join a labour union and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Schneller]

2 year old article.

"Artists can have good careers, earning a middle-class income,"

who the **** strives for just middle class incomes?

and middle class in Missouri isn't middle class in New York or Toronto for that matter.

Nothing against an arts degree, so long as it isn't your first one. I'm not saying it won't lead to a decent career, but you decrease the opportunities.

Yes, I know. We had a discussion about following your heart/passion or your head. It was a hard decision, easy to make.

 

[Matt Rain]

Fluff degree here. Sheer luck had me landing a job in a booming dotcom. 15 years experience is making my ***** degree completely irrelevant.

I will actively discourage my son from following the same path.

 

[GreyGhost]

Mac for Mech Eng. Good school, good experience. After school, carpenter for a year to pay off loans/car/bike. Working in a non-mechanical engineering field now.

My personal belief is that the most important aspect of higher education is that it is hard. I don't care whether it's engineering, architecture or comp sci, proving you can get through a hard degree is worth something. Most of the degrees that require 10 hours a week of classes and you get through by having a pulse mean nothing and will get you nothing in return, they just delay your life.

As others have said, if I was on my way to a law degree, I would pick something with better employment prospects than history in case my plans got derailed (or law continues to have poor employment prospects). Start with something like engineering/business/arts & science (stupid sounding degree, but it's hard and the smart kids congregate there).

 

[Boots]

I go to York for law. It's okay kinda redundant... Same stuff every year. I also minor philosophy and that kn the other hand is fun

I've sat into a couple history classes for fun, theure interesting

 

[Dresden]

If he wants to stick with the Law route, I would highly recommend UofT Downtown. Of course he doesn't have to undergrad , but it's a great campus and the name will hold weight in the Law circles. I believe they are consistently ranked #1.

If he comes out of Law School from there, he has a pretty solid career infront of him. Most top student's are recruited prior to graduation into the top Toronto firms. Plenty of opportunity to partner down the road or split off on his own at some point and take his book of business with him (once he's cut his teeth).

If he's a "maybe i'll do law" ; the advice above is not relevant as it's quite competitive.

 

[Riceburner]

BA in Applied Arts from Ryerson. Worked in the field the first 7 years or so out of school, then completely switched fields to IT for the last couple of decades.

 

[油井緋色]

Which did you go to?

What was your experience like?

Kid wants to go through for History, and maybe get into Law.

You have a few choices in our current world, others can chime in but these are the solid ones:

University:

Accountant, nursing, software, almost any engineering.

Everything else requires you to get a graduate degree. There are very few exceptions to this rule, look at unemployment rates for ppl who have an arts, science or even business degree.

College, on the other hand, is applicable and forces you to not suck. Modesty aside, I started in university and completely hated it. Switched to Seneca for a bachelors in software development. I have a perfect GPA, haven't graduated, but am currently "managing" 2 others with a graduate degree in computer science and being paid above average in Toronto for IT...everyone I've worked with is always surprised that I'm not from UofT or Waterloo.

The other students I've worked with at Seneca and became close friends with ended up with similar experiences; you will obviously have your mental retards in college as well that don't invest anything and therefore get nothing out of it.

Finally, the learning experience of university absolutely ****ing sucks. First year classes have up to 500+ in one room. The "professor" has no clue who the hell you are, you're paying $8,000 to read a ****ing textbook, and half of them only teach because they have to (and it shows).

 

[Gary64]

BA from Concordia in Political Science and ended up working in transportation/logistics. I was not a stellar student and it was a program that was relatively easy to get into and complete so I did. Now 25 years later I hire people with degrees but their field of study isn't really important to me. The fact that they have put the work in to complete a degree matters.

I have 2 sons that are university age now. One of them decided half way through his third year at Laurier majoring in philosophy wasn't his thing. Now he is working in a warehouse and will be returning to school next fall. This time he will be going the college route and studying marketing and sales. It still irks me that I have spent about $60K on his university education (tuition, meals, residence, books, ) and he has nothing to show for it. Son number 2 is in his first year at Dalhousie and started doing a bachelor of management but has switched over to commerce. I've spend a very small amount of time on that campus but it seems to be a fantastic school and he is really enjoying it.

I really think that skilled trades are the way to go for young people now. Professional degrees are great but the others are a dime a dozen. I know some tradespeople that have a bit of business acumen and run very successful businesses and earn much more than most university grads.

 

[Cranky Pete]

If your kid is determined to do an Arts degree, I'd highly recommend taking theatre courses...perhaps as a minor. I work in corporate communications, and one thing I've learned is that every business--no matter what the industry--values people who can make confident, compelling presentations. Theatre teaches you how to speak, how to use body language to best effect, and how to tell a story. It would also be great training for a future litigator.

One of my colleagues (a divinity PhD with a theatre BA, if you can believe it) now makes $200k + per year as a presentation coach for senior executives.

 

[LiNK666]

Be very careful about law. Right now there are more law school graduates out there than jobs. It's declined a lot. One of my friends who has his own practice said that there are articling students who are willing to work for minimum wage or free. Be careful...

 

[Roasted]

Finally, the learning experience of university absolutely ****ing sucks. First year classes have up to 500+ in one room. The "professor" has no clue who the hell you are, you're paying $8,000 to read a ****ing textbook, and half of them only teach because they have to (and it shows).

Yep, when it comes to Computer Science I never went to ANY classes. I would basically show up for midterm, and show up for exam and read the course notes. Getting up at 8 am to sit there for 2 hours listening to some extremely intelligent but socially retarded prof read the course notes to me in a thick accent? No thanks.

 

[Dresden]

Be very careful about law. Right now there are more law school graduates out there than jobs. It's declined a lot. One of my friends who has his own practice said that there are articling students who are willing to work for minimum wage or free. Be careful...

You can say this about many fields aside outside of Medical. Marketing, Advertising, Law, Finance, Accounting... the list goes on.

Recall the late 90's threat of "teacher shortage" which prompted the Fed and many universities to offer B. Ed. programs. Going to teacher's college was all the rage.. and hardly 10 years later you couldn't find a job supply teaching within 50km of your current residence - a few cousins and friends who are younger than me got hit with the over-saturated teachers market and are forced to sit on the sidelines.


Trade's are highly in demand currently; but that too will wash out in a few years once the market get's flooded with under experienced, over educated job-seekers (not to mention slowing construction/development).

 

[Boots]

Be very careful about law. Right now there are more law school graduates out there than jobs. It's declined a lot. One of my friends who has his own practice said that there are articling students who are willing to work for minimum wage or free. Be careful...

This.

I'm not going to law school after because there's no openings after I get my jd and it would be a waste for me especially since I barely like law. Though I've got the grades and have done a decent amount of practice lsat tests to be admitted into law school, I can see me working at like UPS or an office job in the future. Not really using my degree as a means to an end because I just enjoy learning.

Not to mention, a lot of lawyers you talk to don't even like their jobs. Their main argument is the hours they work for the pay aren't worth it.

But if he's really determined for law, he can even go to a law school in the U.K. And come back here to write his bar (or so I was told by one of my managers).

 

[backmarkerducati]

This.

I'm not going to law school after because there's no openings after I get my jd and it would be a waste for me especially since I barely like law. Though I've got the grades and have done a decent amount of practice lsat tests to be admitted into law school, I can see me working at like UPS or an office job in the future. Not really using my degree as a means to an end because I just enjoy learning.

Not to mention, a lot of lawyers you talk to don't even like their jobs. Their main argument is the hours they work for the pay aren't worth it.

But if he's really determined for law, he can even go to a law school in the U.K. And come back here to write his bar (or so I was told by one of my managers).

My understanding is they will have to take bridging courses if they study law in another country prior to writing the Bar. We have an odd system here with Common Law in most of the coutry and Civil Code (Napoleonic Code) in one province. But I am no expert...

 

[Boots]

My understanding is they will have to take bridging courses if they study law in another country prior to writing the Bar. We have an odd system here with Common Law in most of the coutry and Civil Code (Napoleonic Code) in one province. But I am no expert...

Perhaps. All this information was given to me a couple years ago so it could be a little outdated. I just remember one of my managers who went to u of t leaving for England to do law school and then she came back and I believe she wrote her bar. She most likely could have done a transition course and maybe she mentioned it to me but I forgot.

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