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S.N.A.P.
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Undecided and Confused.
- Thread starter rinomato1
- Start date
S.N.A.P.
Just make sure you go over 10k rpm
The Road Warrior
Well-known member
I have redlined all three on many occasions and continue to do so for ***** and giggles. So I don't know what you mean by go over 10K rpm?
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What makes it dangerous is the time it takes to get into trouble...and out of trouble...with a 600SS is ALOT quicker than a 250.
IMO - ALL bikes go slow...not just fast...and you're right...rider error is what CAUSES the mishaps....However the smaller displacement/hp will let you correct the error much easier than a 600SS....therefore making it a better bike for new riders. (Being new, they will make more rider errors)
All bikes are dangerous when taken to their limits of course. But anyone driving to that extreme is going to be in trouble regardless of whatever bike they get. It's not like a 250 can be ridden with total lack of judgement; of course it can kill someone pretty fast too.
The difference is that someone with poor judgement or poor coordination will hve a greater margin for error on just about any bike over an SS. For several reasons...
For one, the riding position. It puts a lot of weight on the rider's arms, which is where all the important controls are. Applying both strength (to hold yourself up) and dexterity (to handle the controls) at the same time is a skill that takes practice. Heavier bikes compound this effect by requiring firmer input from the rider.
So that's number two; weight. The bike will respond sluggishly to timid steering inputs compared to a smaller bike, plus the rider will get less seat-of-the-pants feedback to his inputs on a heavier bike, so he won't learn as quickly what inputs have what effect on the bike's balance and direction. On the other hand, throttle, brake, and clutch are more sensitive to input on sportier bikes.
So the third point is the sensitivity of controls. For example it takes practice to avoid lurching the bike around over the bumps because of the sharp throttle response. Or clutch control when launching from a stop.
Another thing new riders aren't ready for is the speed at which everything starts to unfold when the bike nears it's performance zone. An experienced rider will be prepared exactly for their bike's reactions before they input any controls, his thoughts are able to keep pace with the dynamics of the bike. Nobody without powersport experience is prepared for the sheer speed at which everything unfolds when things get going, so their thoughts are way behind where the bike actually is on the road meaning they're effectively no longer in control on the bike.
What you say about the docile powerband at low RPM is true though, but for some people that very aspect of the bike will prompt them to push a little harder to find the thrill they were expecting when they bought the bike. A smaller/lighter or torquier bike will give most newbies enough thrills to assuage their need for speed (until they start to get accustomed to it and become bored). Very few will look at the pussycat powerband as a learning opportunity.
All these things can be tempered with a less performing bike, but of course the risks are never eliminated, since stupid knows no bounds.
If the gradual approach doesn't make sense, why is it so prevalent in every sport, including motorsport? You move up the ranks and you're expected to learn a little more with every step until you're ready for the big leagues. Eventually, riders learn to stop going to where the puck is and they start going to where it will be. It all has to be learned. Eventually you start envisioning entire plays in your head before they happen on the ice, and no one ever gets there all in one leap.
I've driven all kinds of cars in my life.
I find that whenever I've driven high performance cars, like Mustangs and Corvettes, Im tempted to "push", speed, and see what the car is capable of doing. When Im driving my Accord, I just dont get that same desire.
IMHO, the same logic applies to riding a performance oriented bike, verses, say, a cruiser.
Its easy (and much more fun
) to get sucked in when driving the sportier choice.
I find that whenever I've driven high performance cars, like Mustangs and Corvettes, Im tempted to "push", speed, and see what the car is capable of doing. When Im driving my Accord, I just dont get that same desire.
IMHO, the same logic applies to riding a performance oriented bike, verses, say, a cruiser.
Its easy (and much more fun
) to get sucked in when driving the sportier choice.I'll respond to the last part first: its prevalent in motorsports because that's racing.. completely different from street riding. Most F1 racers started their careers in go-karts. Does it mean new drivers should start in go-karts too?
don't answer thatI largely agree with the rest of your post. However, most of it can be applied to ANY bigger heavier bike than a 250. Katanas, 650s, Monsters, Bandits, all these bikes are often times suggested to newbs but they're all physically difficult to handle. This is something any new rider simply has to learn by doing. You won't learn how to handle a 600 by riding a 250. I've had a few friends who took the 250>600 route in their riding careers and they were very intimidated and clumsy on the 600s, even after having learned the basics on their 250s through a season or two of riding. So again it came down to the individual's capabilities. IMO they would've had a slightly steeper initial learning curve on a bigger bike, but after a week or two they would've been at the same spot.
Your third point, sensitivity of controls, is where I disagree. This is where I maintain that a 600 is completely docile. It doesn't lurch hard off the line unless you rev the SNOT out of it, so its quite forgiving in that regard. The throttle input is also not very sensitive while riding, unless you're deep into the powerband. The power comes on in a smooth linear fashion on I4 600s. Predictable and boring. The brakes are strong, thats for sure. But how long does it take to get used to that? An hour in a parking lot? Again it comes down to saddle time.
Yeah a 250 is easier to handle than a 600 SS but that doesn't automatically make the 600 a fearsome mountain to climb for a new rider. Beyond getting used to the imposing size (which would be the same for any full size bike) the rest of the process is straight forward. Uncertain riders should honestly assess their skills after taking the course and then decide which bike to buy. On the other hand if they felt confident at the course and passed with relative ease, they shouldn't be scared of jumping right on a 600.
Just saying, you seem to have a lot to prove, most guys that do don't talk
rinomato1
Well-known member
I ride a Harley Davidson Sportster 883
rinomato1
Well-known member
I mean I guess I should start going to dealerships and start sitting on a few... there are a list of bikes I'd love to own but one at a time I had my eye on several bikes:
1. Ducati 848/749 (V-TWINSS)
2. Triumph Daytona 675 (but alot of ppl on the D675 forum discourage ANY rider including those with experience but never driven SS not to get)
3. KTM 990 SM/ SUPER DUKE
4. KTM RC8 (MY ULTIMATE DREAM BIKE)
5. HUSQVARNA SMS630
6. Any Big 4 600
I had my eye on several bikes:1. Ducati 848/749 (V-TWINSS)
2. Triumph Daytona 675 (but alot of ppl on the D675 forum discourage ANY rider including those with experience but never driven SS not to get)
3. KTM 990 SM/ SUPER DUKE
4. KTM RC8 (MY ULTIMATE DREAM BIKE)
5. HUSQVARNA SMS630
6. Any Big 4 600
rinomato1
Well-known member
i mean i guess i should start going to dealerships and start sitting on a few... There are a list of bikes i'd love to own but one at a time
1. Ducati 848/749 (v-twinss)
2. Triumph daytona 675 (but alot of ppl on the d675 forum discourage any rider including those with experience but never driven ss not to get)
3. Ktm 990 sm/ super duke
4. Ktm rc8 (my ultimate dream bike)
5. Husqvarna sms630
6. Any big 4 600
almost forgot bmw r1100s boxer cup
Yeah I'm on that forum and read that thread, and to me it reads like they just think you'd be more comfortable on something else. I think they have trouble imagining that a HD guy could also enjoy riding a SS. But I didn't see anything about it being too much for you to handle.
RedDogDarren
Well-known member
Have you considered a VFR750? That is one excellent bike.
The Road Warrior
Well-known member
I have nothing to prove, the guy asked me what I ride and I told him. Most of these people talking about how supersports are not good for beginners don't even own a supersport, majority actually own 250's so how can they tell others about ss bikes when they never rode one? I rode them and owned them so I know what they are like.
How is that me talking too much and trying to prove something? I have nothing to prove, I am just your average rider, I am sure many people here can ride circles around me, but that's not the point, point is in the above paragraph.
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Regardless of the **** talk and what people say here, this is what it really comes down to:
You either got it, or you don't. I spent years mountain biking perfectly fine and one day I made a mistake and split my skull open. I've also accepted the fact that my friends have some truth behind their satirical remarks behind me and a motorcycle (mountain bike = fractured skull, motorcycle = ????).
I know people that have started on litre bikes and have been fine. I failed my M2 the first time because I have **** *** physical coordination thanks to family genetics and have always sucked at sports. I was told to start on a 250 at most. I got a 500 instead because I couldn't find a 650. If I could have afford a 600cc supersport (insurance wise), I would have bought that instead.
Forget what other people say: if you think you want a Daytona 675, then god damn buy it because you'll regret any other bike you get.
If you think you're gonna kill yourself on the 675, then get something smaller to start on.
Honestly, in the end, it only really matters what YOU want. Go start on an R1 for all you give a ****. No one rides because they have to, we all ride because we think it's fun and if you think getting a 675 is fun....then do it. the only people who judge aren't worried about your safety: they just wanna enforce their beliefs on you.
You either got it, or you don't. I spent years mountain biking perfectly fine and one day I made a mistake and split my skull open. I've also accepted the fact that my friends have some truth behind their satirical remarks behind me and a motorcycle (mountain bike = fractured skull, motorcycle = ????).
I know people that have started on litre bikes and have been fine. I failed my M2 the first time because I have **** *** physical coordination thanks to family genetics and have always sucked at sports. I was told to start on a 250 at most. I got a 500 instead because I couldn't find a 650. If I could have afford a 600cc supersport (insurance wise), I would have bought that instead.
Forget what other people say: if you think you want a Daytona 675, then god damn buy it because you'll regret any other bike you get.
If you think you're gonna kill yourself on the 675, then get something smaller to start on.
Honestly, in the end, it only really matters what YOU want. Go start on an R1 for all you give a ****. No one rides because they have to, we all ride because we think it's fun and if you think getting a 675 is fun....then do it. the only people who judge aren't worried about your safety: they just wanna enforce their beliefs on you.
rinomato1
Well-known member
OP, if you can actually ride in the dirt on somthing bigger than an 80 you can pick whatever bike is comfortable and looks good to you. A 1000 or twin will have more grunt though
I hear ya loud and clear! Now it's a matter of choosing a bike.
I mean I guess I should start going to dealerships and start sitting on a few... there are a list of bikes I'd love to own but one at a time
1. Ducati 848/749 (V-TWINSS)
2. Triumph Daytona 675 (but alot of ppl on the D675 forum discourage ANY rider including those with experience but never driven SS not to get)
3. KTM 990 SM/ SUPER DUKE
4. KTM RC8 (MY ULTIMATE DREAM BIKE)
5. HUSQVARNA SMS630
6. Any Big 4 600
Get a sumo... all day, everyday. How I feel after every ride: :lmao:
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