+100 to that
Turkey just shot down a Russian jet...
- Thread starter Zoodles95
- Start date
+100 to that
Dresden
Well-known member
While that may all be so for a multitude of reasons, this is borderline conspiracy theory crazy..
Russia doesn't want/can't handle a NATO problem... just yet.
This will blow over...
I've been following this war pretty closely.. Here are some relevant facts...
Background Info:
1) Turkey has definitely been backing all sorts of insurgents including the al-Nusra Front (al-Qaeda in Syria) and the Islamic State. They even bombed NATO-allied Kurdish troops and shelled their villages when their offensive threatened to cut off the Islamic State from the Turkish border
2) Turkey has been begging for a fight in that region. Erdogan (their president) even got caught "on tape" planning a false flag rocket attack from Syria, which would have given Turkey a reason to invade. When the recording came out on youtube, Turkish government banned it
3) Turkey and Saudi Arabia have been arming all sorts of jihadists with US-made weaponry
4) Turkey has used this conflict as an excuse to crack down on Kurdish separatists. They really wanted to invade "in order to create a safe zone"
5) Turkey called in the Russian envoy when Russian air support showed its effectiveness against al-Qaeda troops in north-western Syria
The incident:
1) A Russian plane may or may not have crossed over into Turkey while bombing insurgent positions. I am not 100% sure on this because Russian planes are involved in an offensive that's supposed to cut off the insurgents from the Turkish border so they're always flying close to it. Turkey can just leave proximity warnings on auto-play. In any case, the Russia has shown no signs of aggression inside Turkish border so at worst, this could have been an accidental overflight for which we'd escort the plane out
2) Various insurgent groups, both the extremist head-choppers and "moderate" head-choppers started firing at the parachuting pilots (which is a war crime), killing them while in the air
3) The Free Syrian Army ("moderate" head-choppers) damaged at least one (non-combat, unarmed) search and rescue chopper, with one Russian marine killed with an American-made TOW missile
4) Turkey wouldn't even talk to Moscow, they went crying to momma-NATO immediately
5) Putin called them out for what they are (supporters of terrorism like the Saudis) and vowed revenge
6) So far, statements from NATO are along the lines of "this has nothing to do with us; it's between Moscow and Ankara"
Future outlook:
1) Highly doubtful that it will result in World War 3. Neither country can afford an all-out war and we wouldn't intervene in case of any reasonable retaliation
2) Most likely, Russia will take down at least 1 Turkish jet either in Syria or in Armenia where they also routinely violate the air-space and Russia has military presence
3) Moscow might start arming more extreme Turkish separatists
Background Info:
1) Turkey has definitely been backing all sorts of insurgents including the al-Nusra Front (al-Qaeda in Syria) and the Islamic State. They even bombed NATO-allied Kurdish troops and shelled their villages when their offensive threatened to cut off the Islamic State from the Turkish border
2) Turkey has been begging for a fight in that region. Erdogan (their president) even got caught "on tape" planning a false flag rocket attack from Syria, which would have given Turkey a reason to invade. When the recording came out on youtube, Turkish government banned it
3) Turkey and Saudi Arabia have been arming all sorts of jihadists with US-made weaponry
4) Turkey has used this conflict as an excuse to crack down on Kurdish separatists. They really wanted to invade "in order to create a safe zone"
5) Turkey called in the Russian envoy when Russian air support showed its effectiveness against al-Qaeda troops in north-western Syria
The incident:
1) A Russian plane may or may not have crossed over into Turkey while bombing insurgent positions. I am not 100% sure on this because Russian planes are involved in an offensive that's supposed to cut off the insurgents from the Turkish border so they're always flying close to it. Turkey can just leave proximity warnings on auto-play. In any case, the Russia has shown no signs of aggression inside Turkish border so at worst, this could have been an accidental overflight for which we'd escort the plane out
2) Various insurgent groups, both the extremist head-choppers and "moderate" head-choppers started firing at the parachuting pilots (which is a war crime), killing them while in the air
3) The Free Syrian Army ("moderate" head-choppers) damaged at least one (non-combat, unarmed) search and rescue chopper, with one Russian marine killed with an American-made TOW missile
4) Turkey wouldn't even talk to Moscow, they went crying to momma-NATO immediately
5) Putin called them out for what they are (supporters of terrorism like the Saudis) and vowed revenge
6) So far, statements from NATO are along the lines of "this has nothing to do with us; it's between Moscow and Ankara"
Future outlook:
1) Highly doubtful that it will result in World War 3. Neither country can afford an all-out war and we wouldn't intervene in case of any reasonable retaliation
2) Most likely, Russia will take down at least 1 Turkish jet either in Syria or in Armenia where they also routinely violate the air-space and Russia has military presence
3) Moscow might start arming more extreme Turkish separatists
Well, the Russians didn't wait to put on a show of strength.. They are just waiting for the Turks to make the slightest misstep now..
https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/
Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger
Moscow plans to suspend military cooperation with Ankara after the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish air forces, Russian General Staff representatives said on Tuesday. Further measures to beef up Russian air base security in Syria will also be taken.
Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.
Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.
The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.
“We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker,” he said. “The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by the missile over Syria’s territory.”
Russia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country’s air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense.
Russian missile cruiser Moskva equipped with the Fort air defense system similar to S-300 will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.
"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.
“All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” he added.
DETAILS TO FOLLOW
Gryphon
Well-known member
Yeah right. Read the BBC LoL, heheh...
There's some honest, impartial reporting right there. :lmao:
Here's what's important:
Russia's SU-24 was engaged in taking out the enemy on Syrian ground.
Russia says they did nothing in any way shape or form to threaten Turkey.
Moscow feels it's a stab in the back by those who are supporting terrorists.
So Turkey might as well just raise the flag of ISIS at this point...
I mean, should a country who supports those who trashed Paris - a Muslim nation located nowhere near the North Atlantic - be in NATO in the first place?
How quickly can we have them kicked out of NATO?
There's some honest, impartial reporting right there. :lmao:
Here's what's important:
Russia's SU-24 was engaged in taking out the enemy on Syrian ground.
Russia says they did nothing in any way shape or form to threaten Turkey.
Moscow feels it's a stab in the back by those who are supporting terrorists.
So Turkey might as well just raise the flag of ISIS at this point...
I mean, should a country who supports those who trashed Paris - a Muslim nation located nowhere near the North Atlantic - be in NATO in the first place?
How quickly can we have them kicked out of NATO?
ashkan
Banned
Everything you said makes sense. But they wont get kicked out. The reason they are a part of NATO is because of their close proximity to Russia. Its meant to act as a deterrent force against Russia so they wont be kicked out.
I don't think anyone is telling the complete truth here. Remember the US had proof of WMD's? Remember Russia isn't in the Ukraine and their weapons had nothing to do with downing an airliner. wink wink.
All of the countries of the coalition can be linked to supporting/funding terror. Saudi Arabia has some of the worst human rights records in the area and we just sold them some Canadian made weapons. Its like we just spin a wheel to find out which 'rebel' group will have them next week.
Each of the main countries involved here are trying to benefit from the instability in the region to further their own agenda while towing the line of fighting terrorism. Its going to get worse I'm sure.
Gryphon
Well-known member
Yes. The Straight of Bosporus (near Istanbul) specifically - it is the only way in or out of the Black Sea.
Still a long way from the North Atlantic though...
Did Turkey shoot down the Russian jet because it is butt-hurt that Russia has been obliterating ISIS for the past two months?
Turkey is a corrupt, jihadist sh*t hole that protects and finances ISIS.
You are correct... In that region, you don't have a major ISIS presence. It's al-Nusra Front territory. For those of you who don't know, al-Nusra Front is Al Qaeda in Syria. The problem is that Turkey is friends with al-Qaeda and loyal to their allies, to a fault. Also, the Saudis would get angry with the Turks if their defence of al-Qaeda was any less than vigorous.
Here's a good pictorial explanation of what's happening down there
Nope, AFAIK it's the cyan/blue track that intersects the very bottom of the red outline of Turkish airspace.
well Russians have put up a map showing the radar track from the russian base in syria showing the plane going around it. so
best part is turkeyapparently gave them warnings for 5 minutes to leave turkish airspace.. when as per themselves the planes only violated turkish airspace for 17 seconds... somethings not right here.. how many minutes in 17 seconds guys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs8jdJKSGo
Russian radar track of the plane in question
Russian radar track of the plane in question
I would not trust Putin or any of his government even if their tongues came notarized. That being said, the present government of Turkey is not much better.
The track of the Russian jet suggests that it straddled the border several times. Each straddle would have been cause for a warning from Turkey. The deeper incursion would have been seen as a deliberate provocation and cause for attack in the wake of the several earlier warnings by Turkey.
