Trial & Error - Playing with my CBR600RRA suspension | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Trial & Error - Playing with my CBR600RRA suspension

I don't think it's "machos", I think you're just using wrong terminology and going about this the wrong way and are in over your head, and the responses reflect that.

Bikes don't normally "understeer" or "oversteer", those are car terms. They "slide the front" or "slide the rear", but at normal street speeds, unless you hit sand/gravel/other slipperiness (which no amount of suspension fiddling can solve!) that ain't happening.

Bikes can "stand up" or "fall in" after their lean angle has been set, and this leads to the bike feeling like it wants to "run wide" (if the bike wants to "stand up" if you were to hypothetically take your hands off the bars mid-corner), or "wash out" (if it wants to keep falling into the corner). This is geometry, not damping, and geometry is affected by ride heights front and rear, sag settings front and rear, tire profiles front and rear. After the bike has stabilized in the corner, it's also affected by spring rates (because the extra load from cornering loads the suspension more) and fork oil level (because the air remaining above the oil level compresses and acts as an air spring).

Of course, the damping has a secondary effect, because uncontrolled ride height motions (front or rear) lead to uncontrolled variations in geometry.

There is a ton of info out there on this. Get the books recommended earlier in this thread, and read them. In the meantime, stop trial-and-error, which won't work when you don't know what you are looking for and don't know how to explain the symptoms you are feeling with the correct terminology, and get it set up by the professionals.
 
I should also add that I've ridden a 2008 CBR600 on the street. The stock suspension components, at stock recommended settings, work very well on that bike ... provided, of course, that the tires are in good shape. ALL that's needed is to set the rider-aboard sag, front and rear, to suit the weight of the rider, Nothing else.
 
Yea, miscommunication is easy. I also made a point that l have to potential to mis-communicate because im learning as l go. We can now single out a couple of "recently-active-forum-members" ( you know who you are and can now take a bow ) for redirecting the thread focus on a couple miscommunicated posts and terminology.

Just my 2c.

Anyways, let keep you guys busy. Here my newest issue. If l give a bit of juice mid corner ( downward on ramp ), the front get wobbly.

Take a shot at it. Feedback welcome. I do read EVERY POST and take time to think about write you guys write.
 
More throttle will transfer more weight to the rear, making the front end feel lighter. That's why your steering feels more twitchy.
 
Yea, miscommunication is easy. I also made a point that l have to potential to mis-communicate because im learning as l go. We can now single out a couple of "recently-active-forum-members" ( you know who you are and can now take a bow ) for redirecting the thread focus on a couple miscommunicated posts and terminology.

Just my 2c.

Anyways, let keep you guys busy. Here my newest issue. If l give a bit of juice mid corner ( downward on ramp ), the front get wobbly.

Take a shot at it. Feedback welcome. I do read EVERY POST and take time to think about write you guys write.

So when you repeatedly say the opposite of what you mean how are we to know?

Was this newest issue really not present before? How is the offset....10cm per 250 yards perhaps?
 
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Anyways, let keep you guys busy. Here my newest issue. If l give a bit of juice mid corner ( downward on ramp ), the front get wobbly.

Take a shot at it. Feedback welcome. I do read EVERY POST and take time to think about write you guys write.

Being smooth on the throttle is important, how would you rate your throttle control? I found myself having some problems being smooth earlier this year, tightening up the throttle cable help quite a bit. The butterflys were popping open, couldn't get it smooth until the cable was set right.
 
Anyways, let keep you guys busy. Here my newest issue. If l give a bit of juice mid corner ( downward on ramp ), the front get wobbly.

Take a shot at it. Feedback welcome. I do read EVERY POST and take time to think about write you guys write.

Simple to fix: DON'T DO THAT.

One of the responsibilities that the rider has to assume, is that of not upsetting the suspension at critical moments ... like mid-corner. It applies just as equally to put-putting around on the street as it does to Valentino Rossi.

caboose's explanation is correct.
 
I know the bike can do better. Ive hardly got started on setting it. Or l can give up and consider it **** compared to my previous bike.

Brain P - Thank you for your explanation, but everything is a learning process. No one start at 100%, we get there but trail and error. Success and failure. Ive learn much through this process and would have otherwise never touch my suspension for the life of me. THAT'S A SIN IN ITSELF. This will take time. Why rush it?!?!?! When l first started l would have been dumb founded to understand what your talking about. Now l do, and can more then defend myself on some basic concepts. Im sure you ridden CBR600RR but have you own one. It only take so much time before we get comfortable and start criticizing and changing over components. It easy to go from bad to good, it burns at your insides when you go from good to bad. In your case l should stay stock forever. It "good enough" :D

Caboose - Pretty much got the gist of that. Ill assume a bit of rear dampening will help blend some of the weight transfer. I was hoping more so for an solution, then an explanation. My assumption is it'll soften the sharp weight transfer giving the geometry more time to react and stiffen up. Not mention more time for me to react accordingly. Feel free to correct me. P.S. The rear is soft and "bouncy" at the current moment.

Murf - That was one of my initial issues before l touched anything. I alleviated some of those issues long ago. These thread is my observation. I had already changed and been riding for a while before l even started the thread. I figure l share my finding with those who were curious.

Mikecbr - My throttle is pretty smooth. I use a lot of smooth motions and clutching to keep the acceleration constant. Im not always perfect at it, but im pretty comfortable switching gears mid turn; not at full lean though. I have a tendency to enter corners high RPM in lower gears. I use the engine breaking to bias the weight on the front and use extra throttle to keep at speed. I'll increase the speed or lean when l know l can easily take the rest of the corner. I will back off throttle or in turn use it to correct the geometry if if l upset the balance. Right now ive have the throttle tighten to the point were the smallest turn will engage. There's no slack, or it minuscule.

Thanks to you guys persuasion l decided to kill my chicken strips a couple night ago. After hitting some extra speed and lean. I notice l finally encountered that wobbly front. Never had that problem on my old bike, so something isnt right. V-twin are twitchy, and the cbr is smooth except in lower gears which the smallest input will upset the bike; which bring me back to v-twin dynamics. So you can imagine im blaming this on a poorly set rear.
 
none of your explanations make any sense and they seem to contradict each other from one post to the next.

you're using words and terminology like geometry, weight transfer and damping(not dampening) that you don't understand the meaning of.

You claim to be able to defend your position on basic concepts, but this is far from accurate.

Your final statement in the post above makes NO sense and is completely contradictory.
 
If the bike has new tires, pressures set right, suspension set to stock, the bike will handle amazingly well, unless there is A) something really wrong mechanically B) rider doing something wrong. Shouldn't be having the problems being described.
 
If the bike has new tires, pressures set right, suspension set to stock, the bike will handle amazingly well, unless there is A) something really wrong mechanically B) rider doing something wrong. Shouldn't be having the problems being described.

+1

and the stock spring rates are a nice match for a 200 lbs rider.

Perhaps Riding the SV he had previously for a significant amount of time has got him thinking all wrong.
 
OP can u please take a picture of your rear tire and post it so we can see and try to help u solve some of your issues? but a picture of your rear tire is essential.
 
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Caboose - Pretty much got the gist of that. Ill assume a bit of rear dampening will help blend some of the weight transfer. I was hoping more so for an solution, then an explanation. My assumption is it'll soften the sharp weight transfer giving the geometry more time to react and stiffen up. Not mention more time for me to react accordingly. Feel free to correct me. P.S. The rear is soft and "bouncy" at the current moment.

I already told you why i will not offer you advice.

thread of the week for sure

Month.

OP can u please take a picture of your rear tire and post it so we can see and try to help u solve some of your issues? but a picture of your rear tire is essential.

You just want to see the 3" chicken strips. It's hard to tune a suspension what the farthest it's leaned over is when its on the kickstand. ;)
 
Brain P - Thank you for your explanation, but everything is a learning process. No one start at 100%, we get there but trail and error. Success and failure. Ive learn much through this process and would have otherwise never touch my suspension for the life of me. THAT'S A SIN IN ITSELF. This will take time. Why rush it?!?!?! When l first started l would have been dumb founded to understand what your talking about. Now l do, and can more then defend myself on some basic concepts. Im sure you ridden CBR600RR but have you own one. It only take so much time before we get comfortable and start criticizing and changing over components. It easy to go from bad to good, it burns at your insides when you go from good to bad. In your case l should stay stock forever. It "good enough" :D

I'm not saying to stay stock forever, I'm advocating a different approach than "trial and error". I'm advocating learning what the various functions do and understanding what the bike is doing (and what YOU are doing to the bike by the way you are riding), and then make *calculated* adjustments where appropriate, based on some sort of rational thought process ... and calling in expert help when appropriate.

You're in over your head, you just aren't admitting it.

Still haven't seen those rider-aboard sag and swingarm down-angle measurements ...
 
OP - When l originally said damping l got FLAMED HARD. Now im being told dampening. Someone get this right once and for all please. The last point was simply an aside to give reference if l can control my throttle. If you manage to miss that point. I cant help you much there. This thread has gone to riding ability.

ABSOLUTELY OFF TOPIC.

Save the whole ride this and that for another thread. Some poor kid will come here expecting to learn something about suspension and instead be flung into all kinds of nonsense. Riding style is a personal preference, let everyone figure it out. Otherwise, they could let a PRO ride there bike for them. People seem to love that answer.

Kellen - for sure, l enjoy talk with one sided PROS. Knowledgeable bunch but not very informative.

T.O. Rider - Another recommendation for those who cant be bothered. Probably find PROFESSIONAL to changed there oil. They might tip the bike over and all the oil will pour out. Best left to a PRO.

MikeCBR - I know! I know! Most people are still focused on when l had the previous set of tires. Seems the like to pounce on easy prey. Good for THEM! LIKE A PRO.

TomC - That you can of worms. OP like a good argument; he a PRO!

murf - ride one "LIKE A PRO" for a significant time, then we'll talk.

OP - THANK YOU! Which is my point let me ride the damn thing, make some changes then come here and discuss. Last time l knew that what forums were for. Give me solutions, contextualize properly, so the everyone who come to learn something instead of starting the same thread every blue moon. ( l like this comment no complaints )

Kellen - PRO / PRO :D

ducati rider - ( l like ducatis' :cool: )... Made by PROS
 
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