Correct.
Ohlins 30mm cartridges have compression on one side and rebound on the other.
Each fork is adjusted independantly.
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Trial & Error - Playing with my CBR600RRA suspension
- Thread starter dragenn
- Start date
Correct.
Ohlins 30mm cartridges have compression on one side and rebound on the other.
Each fork is adjusted independantly.
HOLY CRAP!!!!!!! I would have never thought about that. Anyone found themselves in a position that they needed to do this and why. Is something like this bad for the forks, l mean wouldn't put a strain on them if there acting differently. Otherwise thats a cool idea, I would have tons more play space doing something like that.
Cheers!
snowboarder
Active member
I disagree. My yamaha manual states both forks need to be adjusted the same. I guess yamaha engineers don't know what they are talking about. OP doesn't take his bike racing nor does he have expensive ohlins on his Honda. Telling him each fork can be set differently is just bad advice and can confuse him.
it ABSOLUTELY can be done, and is done on a regular basis, on or off the track.
This is how minute settings are achieved.
Ask any PROFESSIONAL suspension tuner and you be given the same information.
your owners manual will also tell you to run 42psi in your rear tire, this is information provided by the BIKE manufacturer(the do not build tires)
if you contact the manufacturer of the particular tire you have on the bike, they will tell you something MUCH different
Damping settings(compression and rebound) and even fork spring weights can be set independently.
To acheive a .975 spring rate in a fork, it is quite common to install a .95 in one fork leg, and a 1.0 in the other.
Honda even offers this as a suggestion in many HRC setup manuals.
If you care to call BS further, I can give you a long list of some of the most knowledgeable suspension people in America and you can ask them.
snowboarder
Active member
I never said it absolutely can't be done. Just cuz u can do it to this doesn't mean u can do it to that. Judging from OP's original post, sounds like he needs simple instructions if he insists on doing it himself.
it can be done to ANY fork type front suspension.
snowboarder
Active member
Playing with semantics here. Yes it CAN be done, in OP's case, he probably shouldn't. Many posters above already said it might not be a good idea for OP to play with his forks. Now u tell him both forks can be set dependently doesn't help either. I'm not saying u r wrong. Just saying in OP's case, DIYing his forks might not yield the ideal results that he wants.
And like many have said, yeah OP should let a pro do it.
And you actually think he's gonna listen??
I say give him all the information he wants.
I say give him all the information he wants.
ducati rider
Well-known member
speaking of setting up forks, what if u set the left fork to the lowest setting and the right fork the highest setting. how will the bike handle? lol
Would be nice if someone tried it out and told us all an interesting story from it.
Probably, not well. There is no guarantee that the average of "too much" and "too little" is "correct". In fact, I'll just about guarantee that it isn't.
The technical explanation for what reciprocity is talking about, is that cartridge dampers with shim stacks (i.e. the normal modern design) are designed to have a damping curve with a "knee" in it. The damping progressively increases through the low-speed damping circuit (the "clicker") as fork compression or rebound speed increases (note: I am talking about the speed of fork movement, which has nothing to do with the speed of the bike) until the hydraulic pressure reaches a certain preload in the shim stack at which the shim stack starts opening and relieving the pressure, this is where the "knee" in the graph is. On some modern forks you can change where this "knee" occurs using the high-speed compression damping adjustment. If left and right are set the same then this "knee" should theoretically happen at the same damping speed in both forks. Setting them differently can give a different shape of this "knee" so that the total damping of the two forks no longer has a single pronounced "knee" but rather has two less-pronounced "knees" that happen at different damping speeds.
And if you're good enough to tell the difference between this, and a normal arrangement of setting them both the same and in the correct range ... you need to go have a chat with some World Superbike racing teams.
On forks that have compression on one side and rebound on the other, none of this applies. Those forks inherently require different settings on each side - and you cannot do the trickery that reciprocity is talking about.
Among those who offer their services to the public, John Sharrard (Accelerated Technologies) is among the best, but he's not in your area.
Ryan Gill, formerly of Rider's Choice, is another good guy, but I don't think he has surfaced yet since leaving Rider's Choice.
Brad Clarke (Compulsion Racing, http://www.facebook.com/compulsionracing ) is another one - he used to work with Sharrard for a while and then was with Pro 6 Cycle for a while.
And speaking of which, Pro 6 Cycle is another good choice. So is Z1 Cycletech.
Ryan Gill, formerly of Rider's Choice, is another good guy, but I don't think he has surfaced yet since leaving Rider's Choice.
Brad Clarke (Compulsion Racing, http://www.facebook.com/compulsionracing ) is another one - he used to work with Sharrard for a while and then was with Pro 6 Cycle for a while.
And speaking of which, Pro 6 Cycle is another good choice. So is Z1 Cycletech.
Ryan can be contacted at info at condorracing.com for suspension services.
The new shop is in Stoney Creek
He was doing setups last night when I came by the shop.
*** UPDATE ***
My first try was way too stiff, my second try was wayyyyyyy better. After riding for 4 days straight on the same path ( bumpy/flat/under construction/potholes/freshly paved/stripped and ready to pave ) l set my front suspension again ( not touching rear, too complicated at this point to simultaneously set both ). Thanks to lots of forum members advice, and TONS OF READING, also forums searching because im not the only person attempting this. I would not bother unless you have tons of time to read. Also my showa forks arent clickers, so im comfortable making changes by half rotations.
I've set it again and not bad, and whoa what a difference; getting much closer. The learning is worth more then paying to have it set for STREET. For those starting out on their first bike, my observation ( NOT ADVICE... ) have it set properly so you know what to look for. Dont go to hard, progress slowly so you know the difference. I keep the setting for at least 3-4 days worth of riding. Even if l dont like the setting l can observe how setting wrong affects the bike.
If it's your second bike starting back at factory, then why not get your hands dirty. Also im looking into replacing the fork oil with some quality oil, this stock stuff is forcing my to set dampening slightly high; or at least that's my only explanation.
What do you guys think?
My first try was way too stiff, my second try was wayyyyyyy better. After riding for 4 days straight on the same path ( bumpy/flat/under construction/potholes/freshly paved/stripped and ready to pave ) l set my front suspension again ( not touching rear, too complicated at this point to simultaneously set both ). Thanks to lots of forum members advice, and TONS OF READING, also forums searching because im not the only person attempting this. I would not bother unless you have tons of time to read. Also my showa forks arent clickers, so im comfortable making changes by half rotations.
I've set it again and not bad, and whoa what a difference; getting much closer. The learning is worth more then paying to have it set for STREET. For those starting out on their first bike, my observation ( NOT ADVICE... ) have it set properly so you know what to look for. Dont go to hard, progress slowly so you know the difference. I keep the setting for at least 3-4 days worth of riding. Even if l dont like the setting l can observe how setting wrong affects the bike.
If it's your second bike starting back at factory, then why not get your hands dirty. Also im looking into replacing the fork oil with some quality oil, this stock stuff is forcing my to set dampening slightly high; or at least that's my only explanation.
What do you guys think?
Hard to think about anything without even a hint of what we are dealing with.
Have you got a GOOD set of tires that are matched front to rear?
What's the rider-aboard sag in front?
What's the rider-aboard sag in rear?
What's the down-angle of the swingarm from the swingarm pivot to the rear axle when the bike is completely unloaded?
Do you know where the mechanical travel limit in compression of the front forks are, and when riding HARD (track only), how much short of bottoming are you (the zip-tie test)?
Are you aware that the damping settings that give the best "grip" are ordinarily a little softer than the damping settings that give the best "feel"? (See the Race Tech suspension bible concerning this)
Have you got a GOOD set of tires that are matched front to rear?
What's the rider-aboard sag in front?
What's the rider-aboard sag in rear?
What's the down-angle of the swingarm from the swingarm pivot to the rear axle when the bike is completely unloaded?
Do you know where the mechanical travel limit in compression of the front forks are, and when riding HARD (track only), how much short of bottoming are you (the zip-tie test)?
Are you aware that the damping settings that give the best "grip" are ordinarily a little softer than the damping settings that give the best "feel"? (See the Race Tech suspension bible concerning this)
I think you are making alot of assumptions, not necessarily the correct ones.
What are you getting closer too exactly when you state you are getting closer?
In your first post you say the bike would wash out and oversteer......could you elaborate?
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It sounds like you are still trying to dial out some tire issues with suspension changes, you might not end up with great results. I tried this, there are temporary improvements to make, but ultimately a fresh front tire made WAY more of a difference than any changes to compression and rebound did.
You guys/girls are very right. I changed over my tires, l knew what to expect so l guess l forgot to state it more recently. Lately during my rides ive been very observant of what to bike is doing, instead of trying to get my series of thrills. Ive also shy away from "HEAVY" corning because l figure l can get into trouble fast testing a new setup in mid corner. I do however aim for the imperfections in the road and see how the bike handles. I then check the result against various suspension troubleshooting guides/ forum post/advice, and try an adjustment after a couple of days. I'll be years down the road before l get a true handle from this but the sudden surge of information is going a long way. Sort of like schooling except im exposed to TONS of misinformation and my own assumptions. So thanks guys. Hopefully someone else will get some direction from this instead of struggling in silence to avoid criticism.
Brain P - Ill have to measure and get back to you with those number but ill set the sag front to 32mm. Im leaving the rear alone for a bit to see the difference the front will make, im sure once l touch the rear the front wil need to be set again. I figured l would keep it in the middle of the recommended range. This bike is going to be street only. Eventually l will get a track bike, but its too expensive to start up down that path at this point. In the mean time ill have to continue reading before l can talk to you, im struggling to keep up.
Murf - I have no choice but to assume, Im assuming getting closer by improvements to handling. I.e. Is the bike absorbing the bump as oppose to launching over it. If l gain a "pro" by a setting am l also take a "con." Then go back to troubleshooting. Over steering is obvious, the washed feeling was having trouble reading whats happening to with my wheel. It would slide and l would bail and straighten up even on a modest lean.
mikecbr - I would agree completely. It's also come to my attention the stock suspension ( 2009 CBR600RRA ) has a limited range of adjust ability. Man-o-man the plot thickens.
Brain P - Ill have to measure and get back to you with those number but ill set the sag front to 32mm. Im leaving the rear alone for a bit to see the difference the front will make, im sure once l touch the rear the front wil need to be set again. I figured l would keep it in the middle of the recommended range. This bike is going to be street only. Eventually l will get a track bike, but its too expensive to start up down that path at this point. In the mean time ill have to continue reading before l can talk to you, im struggling to keep up.
Murf - I have no choice but to assume, Im assuming getting closer by improvements to handling. I.e. Is the bike absorbing the bump as oppose to launching over it. If l gain a "pro" by a setting am l also take a "con." Then go back to troubleshooting. Over steering is obvious, the washed feeling was having trouble reading whats happening to with my wheel. It would slide and l would bail and straighten up even on a modest lean.
mikecbr - I would agree completely. It's also come to my attention the stock suspension ( 2009 CBR600RRA ) has a limited range of adjust ability. Man-o-man the plot thickens.
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