Trials
Well-known member
The dude deserves to be shunned by all amateur competition riders and denied a competition license.
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Track days, lawyers and lawsuits
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
The dude deserves to be shunned by all amateur competition riders and denied a competition license.
One thing I am not sure if people have consider and maybe I am way far off but here it is.
In many cases the person injured does not have a choice as it's not them but their insurance company suing, I don't know if this is the case or not in this situation, but now to my main point.
With the backlash on Facebook and various forums against this rider, I wonder if in the future other riders would be more timid about suing when there is a legitimate reason of why the track provider didn't do its best effort to create a "safe" track for their event, in turn basically giving any track provide free range to not giving a damn about safety in order to save cost, because at the end the reason why what happened.. happened was to save cost, time and money to have people remove and put back the objects.
It's all fun and games until it happens to you, but I guess none of you will ever blow a corner, none of you will want your insurance to help you financially if you are no longer able to work due to an injury sustained and then somehow you will convince your insurance not to go after someone to recuperate their money?
Guy did what everyone does, he tried to make his situation better but somehow people think he should have put "his riding brotherhood ahead" and not sue? such a thing doesn't exist, at the end most people in here that said "i would have never done that" would end up suing anyone of they felt they were wrongly hurt due to a track provider, because one thing is what you write in this forum and facebook, another is what people really do in real life when your mortgage is due or when you have to put food on the table for your kids.
I got no skin on this, not much care about it but it really has been interesting to see this mob mentality at full force. Now go ahead, Mob away
In many cases the person injured does not have a choice as it's not them but their insurance company suing, I don't know if this is the case or not in this situation, but now to my main point.
With the backlash on Facebook and various forums against this rider, I wonder if in the future other riders would be more timid about suing when there is a legitimate reason of why the track provider didn't do its best effort to create a "safe" track for their event, in turn basically giving any track provide free range to not giving a damn about safety in order to save cost, because at the end the reason why what happened.. happened was to save cost, time and money to have people remove and put back the objects.
It's all fun and games until it happens to you, but I guess none of you will ever blow a corner, none of you will want your insurance to help you financially if you are no longer able to work due to an injury sustained and then somehow you will convince your insurance not to go after someone to recuperate their money?
Guy did what everyone does, he tried to make his situation better but somehow people think he should have put "his riding brotherhood ahead" and not sue? such a thing doesn't exist, at the end most people in here that said "i would have never done that" would end up suing anyone of they felt they were wrongly hurt due to a track provider, because one thing is what you write in this forum and facebook, another is what people really do in real life when your mortgage is due or when you have to put food on the table for your kids.
I got no skin on this, not much care about it but it really has been interesting to see this mob mentality at full force. Now go ahead, Mob away
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As I understand it, it's unlikely that an insurance company is suing because besides not being named, having any kind of insurance that would protect you as a track day participant is rare.
I don't even get how this is possible. I thought that participating in a race puts all of the risk on your own shoulders
Waivers are like warrantys.A good lawyer can make them not worth the paper they are written on in todays world.
Trials
Well-known member
My new disclaimer; when we set out Trials sections we go into the woods and seek out the nastiest most dangerous natural terrain available and that is where we set up to play, there are trees everywhere that don't move if you run into one they hurt, cliffs that if you ride off you will most certainly plunge to your death, the rivers and lakes contain mud and water you can drown in, the rocks are covered with moss and obscured by leaves that offer zero traction, low hanging branches can poke your eye out, none of us have any money and we are totally irresponsible with the nearest hospital being a 45 minute drive, remember to take your OHIP card if you absolutely have to go there repeat after me "my horse threw me".
The only thing we promise is to not leave your bike in flames and body rotting out in the woods.
The only thing we promise is to not leave your bike in flames and body rotting out in the woods.
Absolutely agree, but if some ******* decides to put a barb wire at shoulders height between two trees with the excuse that the weather and wind can make those trees fall so the wire is there for that and they are too busy to remove it during events, you will be royally ****** off. We all take the risk of going as fast as your bike and balls allow but there is got to be some responsibility on the track when they do stuff that makes no sense to make it even more dangerous than whst already is. I am sure when you guys set up your trials sections you don't go out of your way to put objects in place that can hurt people that shouldn't be there.
I don't know the organizer, the rider or the details so this is just my opinion on what I have read and the video i saw.
I don't know the organizer, the rider or the details so this is just my opinion on what I have read and the video i saw.
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This thread is about trackdays and racing.Trials is a totally different thing.I can count on one hand the number of injuries i have seen in trials that require a doctor over the last few decades.Track is another story.A few years ago there were 2 or 3 people killed in one season and every trackday i attended was red flagged at least once.Mosport 2 day is $480.Calabogie 2 day is the same.Insurance is very expensive for a reason.The actuaries have done their work.
I get that, and that's why Daniel Kim's lawsuit is happening... but I thought participating in a race was basically automatic assumption of risk, i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuri
Edit: Looking into it a bit, it seems the the WMRRA thing was not a traditional lawsuit, but maybe one insurance company tangling with another - there are various orgs that riders may have been a member of to defray medical costs, e.g. Airlift NW or Life Flight, so it could be one of those going after WMRRA's liability policy
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I’d agree with you if this was just a guy at the track trying to have some fun and made a mistake. The problem I have with this guy is
1) it’s not personal with him - it’s business. Apparently he was there testing lean angle sensors for Lit Motors. This means he’s writing off track days and Ducati’s and R1’s as business expenses and doing it all pre-tax and furthermore on his investors dime.
2) because he got hurt at the track performing a “business function” he was probably on workers comp the entire time (total guess but logical).
3) because it was a business activity he probably got a brand new ducati from Lit Motors.
4) and this is the biggest one. I really wouldn’t mind so much if there weren’t business articles out there with Danny K saying that Lit Motors is about $15 million away from manufacture stage for their self balancing bike. Anyone remember what he originally sued for? That’s right, $15 million.
This isn’t about his pain and suffering-I’m guessing he took money out of the business to pay for medical expenses and has to get it back somehow so Lit Motors can make their impractical pistachio bike . (which he can do if he has shares in the company or has loaned the company money upon startup or has capitalized goodwill for what he’s contributed idea, patent or brand recognition wise so far which is accounting voodoo ********).
He’s under pressure to go to manufacture because China is going to beat him to market.
Side note the bike would probably do very well in the Uk where space is at a premium.
Bottom line he’s not doing this to make himself personally whole - it’s about capitalizing on an opportunity to benefit his business. That’s what pisses me off.
And if you’re about to say I’m assuming too much - I don’t really care what you think. I’m calling it like I see it.
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I am not sure why you are so angry with me, is it for having a different point of view?
I do appreciate the information as I didn't know any of the details of the guy's business, however does not (TO ME AT LEAST) absolve the track from doing something IMO really unsafe for a rider, which by the way regardless of who is suing the point, at least my point.
And with that I exit this conversation.
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I’m not angry at you at all - you made a valid point. I just wanted to say what frustrates me about Danny K. The sick part is that if the company is an S corporation in which case Lit Motor’s yearly losses are passed down to his individual taxes. So this guy gets to live like a playboy and probably doesn’t have to pay personal income taxes like the rest of us middle classers.
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Sorry ZX600 - when I said “this guy” it was in reference to Daniel Kim.
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HarleyHare
Well-known member
Crash at Laguna-Seca Track Day could affect future North American Track Days
A track-day events organizer at Laguna-Seca is being sued by one of the participants who crashed, even though he had signed a standard liability waiver. In the lawsuit he claims he was cut off by a rider (not that should make any difference) and to avoid crashing into him, he went off the track. Video footage shows no one was near him, and he went wide and off the track. He hit some sandbag rows which are used to divert rainwater and soil away from the track for times when there is a sudden deluge.
If the court rules in his favour and awards him damages, it may mean two things, track days will be way more expensive (increased insurance costs) and many track days will end. Given that California courts like to award money to these poor souls who suffered loss and the insurance companies have millions of dollars (called having "deep pockets"), there is a great chance the victim will win. And that will surely affect track-days and cost in the whole of the USA and Canada by next year.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/could-this-lawsuit-affect-track-days-and-club-racing
The track-day organizer has a GoFundMe page to fight the lawsuit because if he loses, the whole industry will be damaged and changed.
A track-day events organizer at Laguna-Seca is being sued by one of the participants who crashed, even though he had signed a standard liability waiver. In the lawsuit he claims he was cut off by a rider (not that should make any difference) and to avoid crashing into him, he went off the track. Video footage shows no one was near him, and he went wide and off the track. He hit some sandbag rows which are used to divert rainwater and soil away from the track for times when there is a sudden deluge.
If the court rules in his favour and awards him damages, it may mean two things, track days will be way more expensive (increased insurance costs) and many track days will end. Given that California courts like to award money to these poor souls who suffered loss and the insurance companies have millions of dollars (called having "deep pockets"), there is a great chance the victim will win. And that will surely affect track-days and cost in the whole of the USA and Canada by next year.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/could-this-lawsuit-affect-track-days-and-club-racing
The track-day organizer has a GoFundMe page to fight the lawsuit because if he loses, the whole industry will be damaged and changed.
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N3WMAN
Well-known member
Re: Crash at Laguna-Seca Track Day could affect future North American Track Days
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?204683-Track-days-lawyers-and-lawsuits
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?204683-Track-days-lawyers-and-lawsuits
Re: Crash at Laguna-Seca Track Day could affect future North American Track Days
Guy is driving down the road towards a well known beauty spot when a bus full of lawyers overtakes him and drives straight on and plunges over the cliff he was driving to. In shock he jumps out of his car and runs to the edge of the cliff, looks down and sees a fiery scene. He hears a sobbing noise next to him and looks down and sees a kid who saw the whole thing. “Don’t cry...it was probably very quick” he says. The kid replies “no, you don’t understand, there was a vacant seat at the back!”.
Guy is driving down the road towards a well known beauty spot when a bus full of lawyers overtakes him and drives straight on and plunges over the cliff he was driving to. In shock he jumps out of his car and runs to the edge of the cliff, looks down and sees a fiery scene. He hears a sobbing noise next to him and looks down and sees a kid who saw the whole thing. “Don’t cry...it was probably very quick” he says. The kid replies “no, you don’t understand, there was a vacant seat at the back!”.
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