Track days, lawyers and lawsuits | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Track days, lawyers and lawsuits

Blackfin said:
If it wasn't the sandbags it would have been the weeds. If it wasn't the weeds, it would have been the sandy surface. If there was gravel run-off areas, it would have been that. Some people just have it in their moral make-up to sue when they get hurt while voluntarily doing something risky. It's what killed dirt and trail riding in Ontario back in the 1980s.
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weeds wouldn't launch you skyward. didn't see any rain or running water.
Yes, the guy messed up. But many people mess up at td's. Its a known.
Those sandbags simply should not have been there - track safety officer should not have let this happen. (Some-reasonable) responsibility should be taken by the td provider.

not saying the guy should get a million or more, or even a 1/4 million...but this td was allowed to continue with unsafe run off and launch pad sand bags just feet away from the track. Was an accident waiting to happen.. and preventable with due diligence. Finding the td organizer 5-10% responsible could and would prevent anyone else from being launched skyward in the future.
just my opinion.

edit
Track safety is important. Has everyone forgotten why we had a wildcat boycott by the top riders at the wsbk mosport round long ago. Track safety officers for the wsbk riders simply found the track unsafe...Racing, like td's, is inherently dangerous...shrugging off unsafe conditions making it even more dangerous - should never happen.
 
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boyoboy said:
weeds wouldn't launch you skyward. didn't see any rain or running water.
Yes, the guy messed up. But many people mess up at td's. Its a known.
Those sandbags simply should not have been there - track safety officer should not have let this happen. (Some-reasonable) responsibility should be taken by the td provider.

not saying the guy should get a million or more, or even a 1/4 million...but this td was allowed to continue with unsafe run off and launch pad sand bags just feet away from the track. Was an accident waiting to happen.. and preventable with due diligence. Finding the td organizer 5-10% responsible could and would prevent anyone else from being launched skyward in the future.
just my opinion.
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Following that logic we’d never have TDs or racing at TMP, Bogie, Mosport, Shannonville, St Eustache, Castrol Raceway, Tremblant or Shubie.

That would prevent serious injury or death in the future.

That only leaves Grand Bend.
 
I've never rode a track day in my life, but just watching that video I observed 2 things:

- His claim about another bike being in the way/contributory is BS.
- He made what appears to be a total noob mistake and panicking and straightening up in a corner which it seems to me he'd have negotiated just fine had he continued turning instead of abandoning things - the story substantiates that. I know that's easy for any armchair-quarterback to say, but "failure to negotiate a corner" is the number 1 most common single vehicle motorcycle accident on the street because of rookie mistakes/inexperience - instead of cornering harder/decelerating/making every possible effort to complete the turn, a rider panics, straightens up, and promptly rides into the rhubarb.

It sounds like he's going to lose the lawsuit in the end, rightfully so.

Anyhow, this is an interesting topic because it echo's an experience the organization I ride with is experiencing right now - someone made a mistake in a group ride, and now they're suing several riders that were part of it as well as the organization themselves. This year we all had to sign waivers to continue to participate in the group rides (which a fellow in our group who's actually a lawyer himself said recently are probably pointless anyways because of how they're being implemented, as well as the fact you can sue anyways regardless) so there's a lot of apprehension about things this year. In short, at our local level we are investigating possible insurance solutions to remove the liability from individual (volunteer) members to help alleviate those concerns.
 
He didn't hit any spectators :rolleyes: that was good
call it a day, go home and heal up like the rest of us do on a regular basis.

wheelies save lives and he just learned it
 
caboose56 said:
Following that logic we’d never have TDs or racing at TMP, Bogie, Mosport, Shannonville, St Eustache, Castrol Raceway, Tremblant or Shubie.

That would prevent serious injury or death in the future.

That only leaves Grand Bend.
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I didn't know all those tracks have sandbags lining the edge of the track.
 
boyoboy said:
I didn't know all those tracks have sandbags lining the edge of the track.
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The place has an erosion problem and the landscapers don't have a clue.
 
I wonder if the sand bags have since been removed or painted neon orange.


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boyoboy said:
Finding the td organizer 5-10% responsible could and would prevent anyone else from being launched skyward in the future.
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Even that amount will probably prevent rider injuries by cancelling all bike track days during the half a year the sandbags are out. I don't see anybody getting filthy rich by running these, having a huge potential downside may be enough to kill them.
 
boyoboy said:
weeds wouldn't launch you skyward. didn't see any rain or running water.
Yes, the guy messed up. But many people mess up at td's. Its a known.
Those sandbags simply should not have been there - track safety officer should not have let this happen. (Some-reasonable) responsibility should be taken by the td provider.

not saying the guy should get a million or more, or even a 1/4 million...but this td was allowed to continue with unsafe run off and launch pad sand bags just feet away from the track. Was an accident waiting to happen.. and preventable with due diligence. Finding the td organizer 5-10% responsible could and would prevent anyone else from being launched skyward in the future.
just my opinion.

edit
Track safety is important. Has everyone forgotten why we had a wildcat boycott by the top riders at the wsbk mosport round long ago. Track safety officers for the wsbk riders simply found the track unsafe...Racing, like td's, is inherently dangerous...shrugging off unsafe conditions making it even more dangerous - should never happen.
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And yet us locals raced it the same year.
 
Not even try dude, don't you know that knowing something is there completely means that all riders will avoid it? lol.


JavaFan said:
this is civil law
decision will be based on the preponderance of evidence
based on what is available in this thread, the video
plaintiff has ALL the evidence, all a jury needs to do is watch the vid

defendant has nothing but a useless waiver
and a report that plaintiff did not attend the drivers meeting
and no info if the sandbags were discussed or not

second point is damages
guy couldn't walk for a year
there are damages

not saying he is not a jerk for ligating his own shortcomings
but based on the info available here to consider
plaintiff will win, cost of judgment to follow
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ZX600 said:
Not even try dude, don't you know that knowing something is there completely means that all riders will avoid it? lol.
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Haha, if he can't make the corner on the asphalt, how is he supposed to avoid a huge line of sandbags while out in the rhubarb? It's not like he went into the corner too hard, it looks like he just made a mental error and had lots of bike left.
 
MurfSVR said:
So after four years of all work related videos Daniel Kim decided to post this video to his YouTube account two days ago....why?

https://youtu.be/wJTT4yqlegQ
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If he can manage 1:38 at Laguna Seca... isn't this lawsuit shooting himself in the foot? What track day organizer is going to want to have anything to do with him now
 
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JavaFan said:
I get that Brian
have lived/worked in arid places
and watched entire roadways get washed away
when it eventually rains

as an armchair track QB
seems to me they should be moved away
before riders start taking full speed laps

I mean didn't Roberts et al
fight to have proper, safe run-off??

Laguna Seca? really??
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The sandbags prevent rain runoff and debris from getting on the track. Which is a greater risk to more riders, debris all over the track or sandbags placed off the track along straights and not in areas that are direct corner spill zones. One could argue that to remove the sandbags would be more dangerous as it would potentially put more riders at risk if it rained. Is it reasonable to expect the track to remove or replace all the sandbags every day during the winter based on that morning's weather forecast.

Kim has ridden there many times (he has You Tube videos up from previous rides) plus he did at least 10 laps before the accident. They are a known feature of the track in winter. As a rider, he has a responsibility to inspect the track to satisfy himself that it is safe. If he has concerns, he should report it, or at the worst, not ride.
 
MurfSVR said:
This article says the bags are to slow cars down and mentions nothing about rain.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lianey...ansportation-ceo-about-mobility/#1a06f13558c4

It also mentions the part about avoiding a slower rider, which is an outright lie or at least severe judgment error on his part when you watch the video. He’s back on the gas at that point. Like his throttle was unexpectedly opened.


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It also says that he was at the track testing lean angles for his vapor-ware. I guess that means he tries to write off his Ducati and track days as business expenses. Oh, and his product will be further delayed because he is now outfitting them to be used by people in wheelchairs. What a load of marketing BS couched as news!
 
Trials said:
The place has an erosion problem and the landscapers don't have a clue.
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^ this.

Im sure there is a better way to prevent the erosion problem. Hopefully the track itself will find landscapers who do have a clue.
Such a touchy subject and nobody upset lol. The discussion was good. After reading the posts the one that stood out the most to me was; "After the sighting laps the rider should of spoken to the organizers and / or decide not to ride." Or start a riders boycott lol, be safe folks.
 
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