Ah.. but where's the fun in that!!!
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Toronto trying to save money ?
- Thread starter thebigwoof
- Start date
Ah.. but where's the fun in that!!!
A day or two ago I had a lengthy discussion with a frustrated responsible civic employee and was given examples of how much city time was spent on writing instructions on trivial matters such as what to do with your dirty coffee cup but nothing in writing about how to handle life and death emergencies. Those you just wing.
The Peter Principle is alive and well.
invictus43
Well-known member
invictus43
Well-known member
I'm a cyclist and personally, I can't really fathom spending so much money on bike lanes. They're expensive and if you ride normally, you can be perfectly safe riding a bicycle in Toronto. How many people use them versus the cost to make them? It's crazy. And why on Jarvis? That's one of the best routes for getting from the Gardiner up into the city. It's not like putting a bike lane on there is going ot encourage people who have to drive to the downtown to take a bike..from Mississauga...
I like the idea of bike lanes on secondary routes but I would also like to see a co-op type system like they do for snowmobile trails. You want to ride the bike lanes you pay a fee for a pass. The money offsets the cost. Occasional enforcement of non payers will net some more cash. It will really give hard facts on who in the cyclist community wants bike lanes and how bad. I'm not talking a stupid fee but $60 a year (like the plate fee) isn't unreasonable. force cyclist to put their money where their mouth is. I cycle downtown and also don't find it anymore dangerous than when I ride my scooter or motorcycle.
The road user who pays for road repair and maintenance through gas taxes, licensing and registration fees as well as insurance if involved in an accident with a pedestrian.
Are Toronto roads provincial or city? I wonder what percentage of money from vehicles registered outside of Toronto or gas tax would go towards Toronto road maintenance vs a Toronto citizen and their property taxes and other fees from living in the city? I honestly have no idea how it works.
Again it comes down to what I have posted previous about the provincial and federal levels of government giving Toronto back its fair cut of the tax money. With the population density of tax paying citizens we generate the province a lot of money and I don't know for sure but would be willing to bet we don't get our equal percentage back.
As I said before I would support a fee for access to bike lanes similar to those charged to snowmobiles for a trail pass. A small yearly fee from the thousands of cyclists should maintain and eventually cover the investment in bike lanes (on secondary roads not major arteries like Jarvis). Bike lanes can't cost much to maintain as there is very little wear and tear on pavement from a bicycle.
I'm not against a user fee for the bike lanes, I would pay $60/year to use them. Try telling that to all the free spirit pedallers, they'll whine against it like every other law imposed on them that applies to everyone else. No, there's no special maintenance for the bike lanes except the paint that was used to create them. My point is that cyclists pay nothing directly to operate a bicycle on public roads other than the bicycle itself. Bunch of self-righteous enviroweenies.
As for prov and fed tax over contributing, the last numbers I saw wear $11B.
For the cars and gas tax it is a very difficult thing to run down. We pay a lot of taxes for gas but the problem is people who drive in Toronto (or even live in Toronto) do not necessarily buy gas in Toronto! There is also lots of debate that all the money raised via gas tax on the provincial levels does not go to roads (that there is enough money BUT the money is going to other sources).
Of course property tax also goes in the overall city budget and is also used to pay for roads. If you live in a house you pay based on the previous discussion, if you live in an apartment you are also paying (but it is buried in your rent). Apartment renters in high rises are in theory paying a higher percentage because high rise rental buildings are taxed at a higher mil rate.
One thing that has always been a sore point on both sides of the cities boundaries are non-416 people working in the 416 and the transit and road infrastructure they are using yet not paying property tax towards them. This is where the ugly road toll debates come from. IMHO the best solution is a 1% payroll (income) tax for people who do not live in the city they work in (905ers paying 416, 416 paying 905ers etc.). Just think the city would get back 1% from almost every city employee, cause most do not live in 416!
As for bike fees I think it is a non-starter (and although it costs money to paint the bike lane lines the wear and tear in those lanes are from the buses and cars that continue to drive in them...). They should have better enforcement and penalties for those not obeying the traffic laws on bikes.
Thanks for the info. I doubt the over contributing will change unless we have proportional voting and the province/federal will need to respect Toronto voters
There have been movements in the past to make Toronto its own province to at least keep a portion of that money.
I think it is a better idea for the provincial government to find a better balance funding more money back into the area of generation and making the other areas pay more up front. This would actually benefit most of the GTA (not just "Toronto") but will hurt "rural" Ontario through higher local taxes. What is happening now is the areas that are generating the tax money are crumbling because of underfunding, which means at some point they may no longer be cash cows and then everyone is screwed! (I think this is already happening). Kind of like a company using profitable divisions to fund money losing divisions, the lack of investment in the profitable divisions may make them unprofitable in the end.
This is why cities like to host events like the Olympics, in many cases it forces other levels of government to transfer some of the over contribution back (in other cases it makes an underpaying area get even more cash!).
It’s actually quite sad when I heard this from a friend. One of his buddies who works around the world just recently moved to Toronto. He cannot believe how backwards our cell phone technology, roads, school, public transit system. He thinks Toronto and Canada are in third world status based on those variables.
I agree. We have been left in the dust. This is what too much government and regulations does on a country.
I agree. We have been left in the dust. This is what too much government and regulations does on a country.
stormcat
Well-known member
Ah, perfect example of Weber's bureaucracy as the iron cage...
Now they're talking about about privatizing animal shelters/humane services. *sigh* I'm not sure how many of you are aware of how well that's worked for Quebec. Inhumanely euthanizing stray and lost animals in gas chambers that don't work and lead to prolonged suffering, not even contacting the animals' owners first to have them pick up their pet before simply killing them, etc. What a nightmare.
Definitely some things work better privatized than others. Garbage yes, animal services, fire, police likely no. The good news is that privatization does not have to be all or nothing. I see the consultant report as fod for thought more than a policy statement.
It's a good idea but they would just ride on the sidewalks like they do now. What about roller blades, mobility scooters, e-bikes etc. All these things are great if used properly but the city / province is so far behind the times it's a joke. Non of the above require insurance and if one runs you down on the sidewalk you're SOL because they're probably broke.
Our whole transportation system needs a total re-vamp. Mobility scooters and e-bikes should be medical requirement only instead of toys for lazy azzed people that need the exercise.
Why is it that someone can invent a new wheeled toy and expect cagers to just give up a bit more of their lane?
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