The confusion of car buying

[nakkers]

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We have a Kia. Like most brands, the dealer network is hit or miss. Locally, they are a bunch of knuckleheads. Grimsby is run well, transparent in cost and process. They even recommended we take the vehicle for the day to get a good feel if it would be right for us.

My in laws had an Uplander and loved it. They thought they didn’t need the size of the van anymore and “downsized” to an Orlando.

The Orlando has been good to them but, they often complain about it’s lack of room. They don’t have kids or pets and have a 4 door Chev PU as a secondary vehicle. So, take that for what it’s worth.

In early 2018 when I was shopping for a vehicle, Kia was looking to unload Sorentos at 0% financing with discounts on the mid trim level inventory. The Sedona didn’t have the same incentives but, that could have changed by now.

See what kind of impression you get from the dealer, kick the tires and take one for a test drive. Great warrenty. For the past 2 years, our Kia Soul has been excellent.






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[nakkers]

A few things to keep in mind

- A car and a house are not the same
- Upgrades are where all of the margin is, pricey features don't break on base models. Most are really just gimmicks you don't need.
- 0% 1%, etc financing is all b.s., usually cash gives you a "discount", which means financing is partially rolled into the price. Cash still speaks.
- End of the month can be a good time, sales people need to hit targets and get deals closed.
- make sure all communication regarding pricing, options, accessories is in written form
- Don't be afraid to leave, or ask for time to think about something.

Inventory surplus is usually a driver for discounts. Too much supply on dealer lots is costing both dealers and manufacturers money.

Businesses prefer financing or electronic fund transfers as it’s cheaper than cash and administratively safer.

(Anti money laundering regs etc). Cash payments exceeding $10,000 are a nuisance for businesses administratively as well as costly to deposit.

In part it’s why mid to large retail businesses offer cash back to customers to reduce their cash deposits.

 

[crankcall]

For what it adds to the discussion I'm driving my last Ford product. F150, three recalls in 6 months, electric trailer brake controller install at dealer was a PITA, I have a factory maintenence program paid up front for oil changes and brakes ect, except getting a servicxe appt is like winning the lottery. Wheel bearing at 28,000k and now at 39,000 the front wheel engagement for 4x4 rattles to the point the truck is undrivable at times, low vaccuum apparently, its eating itself, parts are backordered 3 wks, just drive it says the dealership service gal, its under warranty!!
Oy Vey.......

 

[nobbie48]

For what it adds to the discussion I'm driving my last Ford product. F150, three recalls in 6 months, electric trailer brake controller install at dealer was a PITA, I have a factory maintenence program paid up front for oil changes and brakes ect, except getting a servicxe appt is like winning the lottery. Wheel bearing at 28,000k and now at 39,000 the front wheel engagement for 4x4 rattles to the point the truck is undrivable at times, low vaccuum apparently, its eating itself, parts are backordered 3 wks, just drive it says the dealership service gal, its under warranty!!
Oy Vey.......

A buddy is an excellent mechanic and refuses to use Ford suspension parts. He likes return business but not that often.

 

[nobbie48]

Th I4 turbo in the Traverse gets around 2 MPG better around town (though worse on highway), but your right in that it is slower and won't tow near as much. It is also a relatively new engine in that platform.

Also can't go wrong with a Caravan or an Odyssey

I was under the impression turbos ran premium fuel. If so the city MPG would be negated by price. Is turbo lag still a problem?

My Goldwing has the same displacement as some new turbos.

 

[jc100]

I was under the impression turbos ran premium fuel. If so the city MPG would be negated by price. Is turbo lag still a problem?

My Goldwing has the same displacement as some new turbos.

Not all turbos need premium. The CRV turbo engine takes regular.

 

[raginduck]

Not all turbos need premium. The CRV turbo engine takes regular.

Wife has the Santa Fe 2.0. You can put regular in it... but you will know it if you do... the power is noticeably down and the fuel mpg also drops. After a couple times trying it... we found there was no cost savings using regular vs premium due to the drop in mpg with regular.
Now... it could be her driving habits that are part of the difference?

 

[GreyGhost]

I was under the impression turbos ran premium fuel. If so the city MPG would be negated by price. Is turbo lag still a problem?

My Goldwing has the same displacement as some new turbos.

Most VW turbos specify regular fuel. Some people argue that the butt dyno says premium makes more hp but I've switched back and forth a few times and I can't tell the difference. Now if you tune it and crank the boost, you really should use premium but you will be rewarded with 30 to 50% more power for $1000. The cheapest hp you will ever get.

 

[EC2010]

Your Chev Uplander has sliding doors? The reason I ask is do not overlook this feature if you are considering between a SUV and a minivan. For me, sliding doors are awesome when loading cargos into the vehicle that'll require the back seats to be folded down. Sienna/Odyssey are both solid vehicles. Too bad Hyundai doesn't offer a minivan, they've come a long way in quality.

Also, in the event you ever need to carry a few pieces of sheet rock/dry wall home, there's always the option to rent the van/truck from home depot/lowes

Good luck with your search.

So we're looking for a new set of wheels (4) and I'm not overly particular but don't want a headache.

One thing that has thrown me is that for example a base Chevy Traverse comes with a 310 HP V-6 but as you move to the higher level models it drops to an L-4 @ 257 HP. What am I missing?

A Dodge Caravan would do the job (The Swiss Army Knife of Transportation) but I'm past suddenly needing a sheet of drywall.

I've never needed AWD or 4WD and don't use most of the electronics on a base model. I doubt I'll ever tow anything but a hitch mount bike rack might be in the cards.

My greatest concern is that I will get fed up looking and just grab something. A friend did that when he was house hunting. He got so fed up looking he told his wife that if there was nothing wrong with the next place just buy it. They did and while there was nothing wrong with it there was nothing right with it. My view of the Caravan.

I like the looks of the Kia Sorento but don't know much about the brand.

It will be replacing a Chev Uplander that in spite of some model negativity has served well for 11 years. It needs a new tranny and struts so putting $7K + into it doesn't make sense.

Thoughts?

 

[DemonPig]

Most VW turbos specify regular fuel. Some people argue that the butt dyno says premium makes more hp but I've switched back and forth a few times and I can't tell the difference. Now if you tune it and crank the boost, you really should use premium but you will be rewarded with 30 to 50% more power for $1000. The cheapest hp you will ever get.

There are tunes for 87 octane and it still gives you around 20% more power. Best $800 I ever spent.
(on a 2016 Golf wagon).

 

[GreyGhost]

There are tunes for 87 octane and it still gives you around 20% more power. Best $800 I ever spent.
(on a 2016 Golf wagon).

That's why I left it as should and didn't put required. I would be surprised if a tune that gives you 20% more power on 87 doesn't run into trouble in certain situations (eg. sustained high load when it's hot out). Thankfully, those situations occur rarely in Ontario.

 

[nobbie48]

A Kia Sedona is only about $500 more than the smaller Sorento if one wants a mini instead of a SUV. Eight speed transmission and V-6 included. My first car had a two speed automatic.

Sliding doors are better for cargo and conventional doors better for people. IMO

The definition of an SUV seems vague. Higher ground clearance and higher seating seems to be the criteria. A 1940 Ford would probably qualify as a SUV.

 

[Trials]

I was under the impression turbos ran premium fuel. If so the city MPG would be negated by price. Is turbo lag still a problem?

My Goldwing has the same displacement as some new turbos.

If it was a Honda engine and has 11:1 compression ratio or higher, then it probably calls for high test fuel.

I've owned a lot of turbo vehicles, lag is generally the result of a relatively large turbo relative to the engine displacement (makes sense because it's the exhaust gases that are propelling the turbine) was a bigger issue on my first turbo 4 cylinder Mustang because small turbos were not economically available at that time and they were using large blowers on the small engines. That has changed now and lots of small turbos exist, many are also inter-cooled which is a good feature. Best solution to overcome turbo lag is when they stack 2 smaller turbo's one right after the next (that's what International Harvester did on my F350 and it really performs. (is a diesel engine, turbo works really good on diesels)

Research the compression ratio of the car model and I suspect 11:1 and higher will generally be high test, lower will likely call for regular, obviously exceptions will exist.

 

[ifiddles]

we had a Santa FE that we used to tow a 6x10 enclosed cargo trailer FULLY loaded with furniture (and I mean jam packed) to San Diego and empty back...absolutely no issues with it...we bought it used with 40K on it and got rid of it just because hubby wanted a pick up truck...otherwise, it was a great vehicle...we had the 6 cylinder, AWD and it was loaded with navigation, leather, sun roof etc...tons of room (we even slept in the rear with the back seats folded down) and had tons of conveniences...it was a 2012...

I currently drive an Elantra GT (2013) and have had no issues with it either...a couple of recalls and rear brakes (which we did) but nothing other than oil changes and a few filters (air/cabin) here and there...

my brother and sister in law are on their 3rd Kia Soul and they swear by them...they don't keep their cars long (spoiled) but they love them and have never had issues with them either...

 

[Iceman]

we had a Santa FE that we used to tow a 6x10 enclosed cargo trailer FULLY loaded with furniture (and I mean jam packed) to San Diego and empty back...absolutely no issues with it...we bought it used with 40K on it and got rid of it just because hubby wanted a pick up truck...otherwise, it was a great vehicle...we had the 6 cylinder, AWD and it was loaded with navigation, leather, sun roof etc...tons of room (we even slept in the rear with the back seats folded down) and had tons of conveniences...it was a 2012...

I currently drive an Elantra GT (2013) and have had no issues with it either...a couple of recalls and rear brakes (which we did) but nothing other than oil changes and a few filters (air/cabin) here and there...

my brother and sister in law are on their 3rd Kia Soul and they swear by them...they don't keep their cars long (spoiled) but they love them and have never had issues with them either...

That's crazy, a Santa Fe only has a max tow rating of 1800lbs.

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[GreyGhost]

That's crazy, a Santa Fe only has a max tow rating of 1800lbs.

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? 2012 should be good for ~3500. I'd think the bigger problem would be transmission temp pulling that cube through the air, but obviously it handled it well.

 

[Iceman]

? 2012 should be good for ~3500. I'd think the bigger problem would be transmission temp pulling that cube through the air, but obviously it handled it well.

My bad. Got my numbers mixed up from back when I was car shopping lol.
Carry on...

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[nobbie48]

? 2012 should be good for ~3500. I'd think the bigger problem would be transmission temp pulling that cube through the air, but obviously it handled it well.

My first automatic was a two speed and now I'm up to six. Is there a reliability trade off for the diminishing rate of return?

I often think EPA goals fail to account for the energy costs of making a replacement.

 

[crankcall]

I'm more interested in why anybody would take a 6x10 trailer loaded to the tits with furniture and back from San Diego?

 

[nobbie48]

I'll add that asking about demo models is worth the effort. On my last car buying experience, the demos were a substantially better deal than the brand new cars. I looked at 2 demos, one had 400 km, the other 9000 km. Both were ~5K cheaper than a new car (discount on price plus freight/pdi is $0 on the demo). I was going to buy a base model new and ended up with the 400 km demo which was a model up for the same money.

Other than the odd demo most used cars I see on dealer lots look like lease returns or daily rentals, 50,000 - 60,000 Km, 1-2 years old. I know it's a crap shoot on buying an unknown history vehicle but again any comments?

For less than a new base model you get a well equipped used.

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