The Bad Riders of Ontario Thread | Page 13 | GTAMotorcycle.com

The Bad Riders of Ontario Thread

jc100 said:
Meet..The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, UK.


I've been on something similar in the UK quite a few times. Definitely no texting and driving while navigating these!

Hmm…what’s up with the video links?
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Youtube and forum software stopped playing nicely. Paul needs to do an update to fix it.
 
george__ said:
My issue yesterday was a big gigantic pickup truck obscured my view on a 2 lane roundabout. I "thought" I saw both cars in the round-about signaling to turn so I "assumed" okay let's go. Nope. Emergency braking + downshifting and almost flipped the motorcycle :ROFLMAO:

If I was less experienced I would definitely be dead. AFter t-boning that car, the truck in the round-about would have just squished me like road kill.

The same night on the way home on the same road, a BMW and I were kind of road-raging. The idiot speeeeed up then almost rear-ended a car and tried to side-swiped me to avoid a collision. The bike was in 2nd gear probably 5000 rpm+ so you could hear the bike screaming but this confirms to me, loud pipes don't help save your life

TLDR: SLOW_DOWN
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A different perspective: you should be skilled enough to sense and predict these scenarios 5-10 seconds before they occur and it should happen without active effort. Avoidance beats having to deal with it. @Evoex's post was pretty good with diving into how.

Also, many track junkies if put in that scenario wouldn't overreact if needing to react (likely due to lessons learned from too much throttle/brake/whatever and crashing) and it becomes a second instinct. You also learn how to pass/overtake safely.

Just my 2 cents because there's a lot of ignorance with regards to how much track riding (and sims to an extent) transfers to street, and it seems the general census is "it's near useless."
 
油井緋色 said:
Just my 2 cents because there's a lot of ignorance with regards to how much track riding (and sims to an extent) transfers to street, and it seems the general census is "it's near useless."
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Where was that posted that track riding was useless?

I need to increase my reading comprehension skills?
 
油井緋色 said:
A different perspective: you should be skilled enough to sense and predict these scenarios 5-10 seconds before they occur and it should happen without active effort. Avoidance beats having to deal with it. @Evoex's post was pretty good with diving into how.

Also, many track junkies if put in that scenario wouldn't overreact if needing to react (likely due to lessons learned from too much throttle/brake/whatever and crashing) and it becomes a second instinct. You also learn how to pass/overtake safely.

Just my 2 cents because there's a lot of ignorance with regards to how much track riding (and sims to an extent) transfers to street, and it seems the general census is "it's near useless."
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i would say absolutely track should make you a better rider overall but there are some things about street that just require judgement you can't get from the track, you only get it from more street exp.
 
bakaboy said:
Where was that posted that track riding was useless?

I need to increase my reading comprehension skills?
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You've been on these boards about as long as me. That opinion has been rampant here. Hell, there was some comment about what does track teach about potholes or something...Shannonville teaches that pretty well with the bumps lol
 
I have done the FAST schools, when I did the first thing they tell you (at least then), and they made a point about it....this is not about road riding skills, the main instructor even pointed out he does NOT ride on the street. Yes, some high speed handling, shifting, etc. can apply some to the street but unless you are riding at the edge on your SS on the street like a total ******* real track riding and street riding are really two different skill sets with some (small) overlap (in the real world, not mad skillz fantasy land).

I worked with a former superbike racer. He had a Harley Sportster on the street, I really had to ask..... It was not because he loved Harley or anything but because he could push it towards its limits without risking losing his license going crazy fast for the street (and he pointed it out it could have been any basic cruiser, not just Harley). Sort of the old adage, more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
 
At the end of the day it all depends on the rider and what you take away from track and street. Of the people I've met at track one could argue it gives them a superiority complex when it comes to going back to the street. "I can run Calabogie in 2:05 Im going to just whiz through this 507 today!" Keith Code himself could mentor you, and yea youre a good rider, but don't get cocky because at those speeds there are things you can never avoid; like the idiot doing a 3 point turn mid corner, or grandma pulling out of her cottage driveway without even looking.

Same goes with Street stars that suddenly do a track day and become very humbled, possibly to the point of never returning to the street. I have a friend that after doing track said he would never again ride street, and simply does track which is great for him. Track does teach you some very advanced techniques, but with everything its what you do with it. You let it get to your head and believe you've become even more invincible on a motorcycle and it could end very badly.
 
Total Control like programs in the UK (some done with the motorcycle police) get you an insurance break. Track schools and race schools get you no insurance advantages. There’s a reason for that.

As an aside, I’m happy to see Total Control are running courses in Trenton this year and not just the GTA. Hope I can free up time for that if there are places left.
 
jc100 said:
Also for roundabouts…they seem like kryptonite for some drivers. They just don’t have a clue what to do with them. I always pay extra attention when I’m on one in N America. It’s a shame as in the uk they are good practice for “look where you’re going” steering on a bike and when used properly they aid traffic flow.
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I use one every day at Bloomington and 48. For decades this intersection has been the site of regular crashes and many lost lives.

Since the roundabout went in a few years ago, I haven’t seen a single collision. It also speeds up traffic thru the intersection.

it took a while for drivers to understand how a roundabout works, lately it seems to function well.

We could use more of these.
 
Evoex said:
i would say absolutely track should make you a better rider overall but there are some things about street that just require judgement you can't get from the track, you only get it from more street exp.
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This is so true. On the track everything moves in the same direction, obstacles are minimized, and the riders/drivers in your traffic are usually well beyond novice and following track rules and practices.

The track has unpredictable situations, but nothing like the street.

Situational awareness on the street is probably the most important thing a rider needs to develop to be safe. You won’t get much on the track.
 
Mad Mike said:
Situational awareness on the street is probably the most important thing a rider needs to develop to be safe. You won’t get much on the track or staring at a computer screen
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FTFY
 
Mad Mike said:
I use one every day at Bloomington and 48. For decades this intersection has been the site of regular crashes and many lost lives.

Since the roundabout went in a few years ago, I haven’t seen a single collision. It also speeds up traffic thru the intersection.

it took a while for drivers to understand how a roundabout works, lately it seems to function well.

We could use more of these.
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This intersection used to be on my regular drive for years. Never really saw much of an issue when it was traffic lights. Sure the turning lanes would sometimes back up a bit but traffic moved fairly well there for the most part.

I avoid it ever since they put in that roundabout. People are still clueless as to how they operate and the gravel trucks simply don't care. The trucks don't even look for smaller traffic, they just pull right in at 110km/h and force the smaller vehicles out of the way.

Any accident there will now be a fatality.
 
As with most things, more is usually better. More tracktime is very expensive. If you can gain the knowledge needed within your budget, great. But most people run out of cash before they advance thier skills enough to justify more time on the track.
This is why i believe training in the dirt is more valuable (esp trials).
Clinton Smout! SMART Adventures NEW has the facilities to train in all different aspects from trials to big ADV to quads for kids.
Skills learned offroad last a lifetime.
 
油井緋色 said:
You've been on these boards about as long as me. That opinion has been rampant here. Hell, there was some comment about what does track teach about potholes or something...Shannonville teaches that pretty well with the bumps lol
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I think the problem continues to be your inability to see that the world is not black and white but rather a whole mess of grey.

Track riding can help you be a better rider by helping with motorcycle control and confidence. Confidence is the biggest that I have seen. And I dont mean confidence to go drag knee on DVP ramps. I mean confidence that they CAN ride without fear of the bike.

It doesnt mean that I need track riding to survive street riding and it doesnt mean that all people who try track riding will develop/transfer any skills to street riding.

But as with everything in life this is but 1 aspect of many needed to do a task.

As Mad Mike and others have said street riding requires a multitude of skills to survive and that list is not very comparable to track.

Track riding is about confidence for the majority of people that lack it.

Track riding is not a benefit because I can now calculate in my head if I can out brake the person in front of me at T1.

I should be more focused on if Aunt May at Walmart actually saw me are not.
 
Torren said:
This intersection used to be on my regular drive for years. Never really saw much of an issue when it was traffic lights. Sure the turning lanes would sometimes back up a bit but traffic moved fairly well there for the most part.

I avoid it ever since they put in that roundabout. People are still clueless as to how they operate and the gravel trucks simply don't care. The trucks don't even look for smaller traffic, they just pull right in at 110km/h and force the smaller vehicles out of the way.

Any accident there will now be a fatality.
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Do you remember the light pattern before the roundabout? There were so many serious collisions the traffic signals were set so only 1 of 4 directions was green lit.
 
bakaboy said:
I think the problem continues to be your inability to see that the world is not black and white but rather a whole mess of grey.
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Everything is grey. However, within every community, there is a popular opinion on topics as this is the basis to all communities. There are very few communities where the popular opinion, in a black and white context, is true/correct across all permutations.

The disagreement in this thread started due to someone having no experience with track responding to a mindset I noticed many fast riders had and attempting to invalidate it. We have also had this conversation before. I respect you, @Mad Mike, and other's opinions and understand where it is coming from: I also disagree because of my personal experiences.

However, if tries to invalidate my personal experiences, I will become a verbally abusive ******* because punching people was out of style by high school. The responses I made from page 3+ onward were due to this.
 
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Mad Mike said:
Do you remember the light pattern before the roundabout? There were so many serious collisions the traffic signals were set so only 1 of 4 directions was green lit.
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I actually don't remember any major collisions before the roundabout was installed. Didn't see any, didn't see much in the way of broken parts or absorb-all piles in the intersection. Never read about any rash of major accidents there. That's why I was so surprised the wasted money on a roundabout.

I have read about a couple major accidents there involving gravel trucks since however.
 
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