Tangerine (ING Direct) has gone massively downhill.

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Lightcycle said:
Interesting.

I've seen a lot of these social media response programs from a lot of companies online and most of the time the reply (as in the above) is just a PR campaign as a showcase for customer responsiveness, but the end result is that the company just apologizes and promises to do better with no demonstrable change in policy or real compensation for the customer.

Not slamming Tangerine prematurely, but it will be interesting to see if this case goes the same way as others I've seen.

Diesel, if you could, keep us updated on what exactly Tangerine does to alleviate the situation for you and for all of their customers. I am a Tangerine customer as well, so I have skin in the game.
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I sent Eric an email, but I doubt there is much that can be done to regain my trust to use this card for day-to-day banking. I will keep this thread updated though as to what Eric offers.

In my scenario above, I was lucky as I was on my way home. If I was on an extended trip I would not have the time (or mailing address) to deal with this hassle of having to reset the pin once the block has been removed. Now I have lost trust in this card. Next time I am on the road I could be left to rely on my credit cards, which I don't like to and cannot use everywhere (i.e. cash services, road side vendors, etc).
 
Dresden said:
eff PC financial.

I had to pull out 20K out of my account once and it was the BIGGEST hassle ever. They have some rule where they can only allow you up to a certain amount per day, even if you call them to have them authorize it.

I promptly closed all of my accounts.


TD bank! Keep a minimum balance over 5K and everything, including the premium cards and US dollar accounts are free. Plus, your account manager (from the branch and not that tele marketing crap) actually keeps in touch when there are promotions out that match what you want.. IE they don't just call to sell you some "balance protector".


Also, eff RBC, mainly due to their ridiculous call centre selling tactics.
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I'm considering trying TD now. I never pull large amounts of money out as I don't keep large amounts of money liquid, most of it is in mutual funds, rrsps, etc.... the most liquid $$ other than my chequing account is the tfsa savings in which $5k only earns about $60/year in interest anyway, so I might as well leave it as a buffer in a chequing account.

The other thing about TD is they currently have a promotion to get a free tablet for opening one of their top accounts. I might just try them out for a year and get a tablet to take on the road to boot.
 
Diesel said:
I'm considering trying TD now. I never pull large amounts of money out as I don't keep large amounts of money liquid, most of it is in mutual funds, rrsps, etc.... the most liquid $$ other than my chequing account is the tfsa savings in which $5k only earns about $60/year in interest anyway, so I might as well leave it as a buffer in a chequing account.

The other thing about TD is they currently have a promotion to get a free tablet for opening one of their top accounts. I might just try them out for a year and get a tablet to take on the road to boot.
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The tablet promo is what got me to move my money over. Been good so far, but I had dealings with them many years ago.

I agree with your point about liquidity; for me, the savings on bank fees far outweigh the investment income on 5k.





Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
 
Tangerine Social Media said:
Hey Diesel,

Erik here from the social media team at Tangerine. Sorry to read of your very frustrating experience. We'd like to try and make things right, so if you felt like emailing me at esherman@tangerine.ca I'd be happy to help.

Thanks,
Erik
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It's funny both a) how high GTAM can be in the search results for something, and b) how fast Google indexes new threads. Nobody say anything that brings Scotiabank down on us, lol
 
TwistedKestrel said:
It's funny both a) how high GTAM can be in the search results for something, and b) how fast Google indexes new threads. Nobody say anything that brings Scotiabank down on us, lol
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Its just Scotty B now...don't awake the Kraken

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
I've been using the td all inclusive account for 3 years and love it. I have save hundreds on drafts and certified cheques. $5k balance isn't much.
 
Tangerine is the direct banking division of Scotiabank just like PCF is the direct banking division of CIBC.

I just finished working at CIBC for the past 6 years and I like the Tangerine app a lot.

I would be upset if my debit card was locked just because I was in the US because I'm hard of hearing. Will be interesting to know if telling ahead of time trips taken is all that is necessary to avoid problems.
 
By the way, regarding the certain amount per day from PCF, why not link a branch account? Then you can do ETF to and from PCF without dealing with ABMs. This works for Tangerine too. Link your LOC.
 
Sunspark said:
By the way, regarding the certain amount per day from PCF, why not link a branch account? Then you can do ETF to and from PCF without dealing with ABMs. This works for Tangerine too. Link your LOC.
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The problem is, the transfer is not instantaneous. If you need access to $$ right away, PCF (or Tangerine) do not offer you that option.
 
Dresden said:
The problem is, the transfer is not instantaneous. If you need access to $$ right away, PCF (or Tangerine) do not offer you that option.
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What about having a line of credit elsewhere, deposit a check written from PCF or Tangerine then withdraw the funds from the LOC?

I wouldn't close my CIBC LOC as it allows positive balances. Not all banks allow positive balances on a LOC. CIBC is one of them. In all respects, it is a chequing account with a truly vast overdraft.
 
By the way Diesel and others, Amazon.ca rewards Visa card does not make you pay a 2.5% foreign exchange fee when shopping outside of Canada. It's also a no annual fee card.
 
Dresden said:
TD bank! Keep a minimum balance over 5K and everything, including the premium cards and US dollar accounts are free.
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One gripe I have about the TD US Dollar account is that you can't link the account to your debit card. So if you are traveling in the US (or anywhere they use and issue USD), you can't use an ATM to withdraw USD from your TD USD account. You can only withdraw from your Canadian dollar accounts and then pay the foreign exchange fee.

The only way around this is to open up an account at TD Bank in the US with an American debit card, and then they link your TD CanadaTrust US Dollar account to the TD Bank US account, where you can do a electronics funds transfer between the two accounts.

Stupid.
 
Lightcycle said:
One gripe I have about the TD US Dollar account is that you can't link the account to your debit card. So if you are traveling in the US (or anywhere they use and issue USD), you can't use an ATM to withdraw USD from your TD USD account. You can only withdraw from your Canadian dollar accounts and then pay the foreign exchange fee.

The only way around this is to open up an account at TD Bank in the US with an American debit card, and then they link your TD CanadaTrust US Dollar account to the TD Bank US account, where you can do a electronics funds transfer between the two accounts.

Stupid.
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That does sound stupid. The absolute only reason I would want a US$ account is so I could buy USD when the rates are decent, and withdraw it when I am in USA and need cash. I guess there is no point in opening that USD account.

Thanks for the info on the amazon.ca card, I might look into that.

Do TD branches allow you to walk in and buy USD? Does PCF allow you to withdraw USD from anywhere?
The one thing I liked about ING -- I opened my account with them when they still had ATMs in Canadian Tire -- was that you can withdraw USD from their ATMs. The day they pulled their ATMs from CT was when they started going down hill for me as they were no longer as convenient.
 
Diesel said:
Do TD branches allow you to walk in and buy USD?
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Yes. I think most of the Big 5 banks allow you to do this. It gets a bit more complicated doing foreign exchange for currencies other than USD, then you have to call ahead 3-5 business days in advance for them to order the currency.

If you're looking to buy/exchange a large sum of USD, and you have a brokerage account, do a search for "Norbert's Gambit". It's a way to eliminate forex fees by buying and selling a CDN/US inter-listed security. It just costs you two commission fees vs 3% forex at the bank.
 
I got my response from 'Eric', and as expected it was just a long winded explanation of their policy. Absolutely nothing that might encourage me to stay with them.

Hello Mike,

The email and link below has been forwarded to my team by Erik. We'd first like to apologize for the frustration caused by both our wait time and security procedures. We've been busier than expected since our name change and we currently have all hands on desk to ensure all Client calls are answered. During busy times like this we also implement the help of all departments and we're currently in the process of hiring between 50 and 100 call center employees. I understand that this doesn't make waiting on hold any better and we hope you'll give us the opportunity to show you that the wait time you're experiencing is temporary.

Regarding your initial issue with your bank card, as a direct bank there are certain procedures in place that we have to implement to ensure your Accounts remain secure. When a bank card is compromised our only option is to deactivate it and send you a new one, or give you the opportunity to change your PIN at a compatible ABM in Canada.

When the second option is chosen, we don't lift the flag on your profile until we know you are at an ABM and ready to change your PIN. It may sound silly, but allowing access to your bank Account with the old compromised PIN - for any period of time - is dangerous.

We encourage our Clients to make banking decisions that are the most beneficial to them, and we understand your reluctance to go through this PIN change process now. Keep in mind, even when you receive your replacement Tangerine Client Card, it's associated with the same PIN and you will still not be able to use the card until you call us to go through with one of the options above.

We can’t provide a specific time of day where the wait time may be less, but we're open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We're also typically busiest in the evening. When you call, you will be advised of the expected wait time, and if it’s forecasted to be longer then you’d like to wait, you can try again anytime. If needed, our number is 1-888-464-3232.

Our goal is to be a convenient alternative for every day banking in Canada and we're always looking for ways to improve on our services to reach this goal. Your comments and experience will be forwarded to the right team for review.

All the best,

Corrie
Client Services
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So be very weary of using Tangerine if you travel. My card was not compromised, but they thought it was and blocked it. The wording in this email indicates that it would be impossible for me to unblock the card while out of the country.

No big problem for a 3-day trip -- but what if you are on an extended trip and need access to cash more than once?

Done with Tangerine.

My response to their email though:

So what am I supposed to do when I travel?

This trip was only a 3-day trip, so I was back in Canada soon enough that I could unblock the card. But what happens next time when I am on a 2-week trip and am unable to unblock the card?


I appreciate the security, but not when it will leave me stranded without money in a foreign country. I want a debit card that I can trust will work for me when I need it. Apparently Tangerine does not offer this service.
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The brokerage account thing is too much hassle for too many people here including myself. Even when I was in a position to use it I didn't.

I'm going to get that Amazon.ca Visa for myself because it's not specific to US currency. It will work for all the other currencies we might care about when mail ordering from the UK, Japan, etc. Avoiding the 2.5% fee saves most of the bother of having to deal with the brokerage wash trade bother because then it is just the inter exchange rate. As far as I know this is the only card that doesn't charge you a forex fee. This also means you don't need to withdraw cash. Just make as many transactions as you want and charge it all.

I also thought about the ABM issue for US dollars in Canada and I think I may have a solution if you don't need 5 minutes notice. Open a US account with CIBC. The fee for withdrawals is or was 75 cents. Link this account to your US account with Tangerine if you have one then ETF the US funds over then withdraw from the CIBC ABMs that dispense US currency. TD and RBC also have US currency ABMs as well. I don't really see the value though. Why not just withdraw from a Bank of America ABM in the states or something. I think the credit card is the best way to go unless you are a currency speculator. Caveat emptor, I have never tested to see if the systems are lame enough that they would convert US to CAD and then back to US again or if it would be a straight US-US transfer. It should be because ETFs specify the currency they are in.
 
Diesel: That's a problem for me that Tangerine/Scotiabank require you to be standing in front of an ABM. PCF gives you 2 hours to get to a machine. This is poor customer service because what they could say is that if you notify them you are travelling will that be acceptable or not? If it is an instant lock the minute you get off the plane then I would say this is bad. This question hasn't been answered especially in light of people with accessibility issues like hearing.
 
As for using the credit card for everything, do you mean withdrawing cash with the credit card? If so, how do you avoid paying interest on that money from the minute you take it out?

In most countries I need cash. All through America there are things you need cash for: toll roads, markets, etc..

An example I had last week in Erie, PA: My heat shield broke and started rattling on my muffler. Took it to Monro muffler and the guy that checked it out fixed it with a couple of screws. The manager says to me: "This isn't worth writing up, so just give the guy a few bucks for his time." So I gave him $10 -- and luckily I had cash with me. What else was I going to do? Ask them to charge my Visa?
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