Sunday Morning Rides are Over - Cyclists win. | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Sunday Morning Rides are Over - Cyclists win.

Cyclists need to break this entitlement that hangs over their community. No one is happy when they change from a road vehicle to a ‘pedestrian’ whenever the traffic signs don’t agree with their conservation of motion. Passing right turning vehicles on their right with no sense of appropriate care or attention for anyone but themselves is beyond stupidity

Sorry, but you guys have earned the hate.

In other news I note we now have bike lanes on danforth. Oy vey.
mmm thats akin to someone sayin motorcylists are responsible for 172 - you earned that hate

not right.

not the end of the world, give three feet, ride slow, avoid in future

this thread sounds kinda like mr and mrs whiner from SNL lol
 
I know this is a debate, largely because there is little enforcement of peleton or side by side style riding. The HTA says riders must give way to faster traffic by pulling right, and may not ride side by side if impedes the normal flow of traffic.

I'm all for cyclists sharing the road, but like the rest of the road users they should have rules and those rules should be enforced.


A couple of other things that I'd change.
1) Remove the reverse onus law. Toronto based studies place equal blame on cyclists and drivers (33% cyclists, 33% motorist and 33% joint) yet motorists have the bigger burden when it comes to liability.
2) Where bicycle lanes have been afforded, cyclists should be limited to those lanes and prohibited from using the auto lanes for anything but turning or avoiding obstacles in bike lanes.
3) Make riders using the road produce drivers licenses if they have one to police officers to facilitate appropriate assignment of HTA offences.
4) Specifically outline rules regarding single file and peloton style group riding in the HTA.
1) i think what happens here is all about physics and statistics. In a car vs bicycle collision, the car always wins even if the cyclist is in the right. You won't have a car driver be killed or gravely injured do a cyclist error... and i'd be comfortable to make up the stat of 99% of the time. So the potential for damage the car carries will probably help to dictate that burden of liability.

2) totally agree, except there is barely any bike specific infrastructure in toronto (you might encounter more outside of the core), most of the main arteries are made up of multi-use lane that are not made to get quickly from point a to b and often times will be overcrowded and quite a lot less efficient (ie. waterfront trail in mississauga add at least 5km of multi use trail). Also infrastructure tends to be little bits and pieces at a time, so instead of having a straight line, you have to do all sorts of detours to get from one piece of bike infrastructure to the other. If proper infrastructure was built, that would be a non-issue in the first place. But proper bike infrastructure is perceived as "war on cars" and as we've seen with covid it's not the most efficient measures that get voted in but the ones the politicians want.

3) fine for that, know the rules of the road if youre gonna share the road. but that goes for drivers too..people tend to hmm... forget.

4) Definitely, and normally a good established group will know the rule and teach its members...so maybe something the OCA (Ontario Cycling Association) can work on with its clubs/teams that a registered under their banner

In the end, if the police enforces based on level of threat and number of users, the car will outweigh the bike by A LOT as cars are more dangerous and there are way more cagers on the road than there are cyclists. So by policing cars the police has more chances to save a life than by policing cyclists.
This isnt to say AT ALL that i support riding 2 abreast even if roads are narrow and there are cars in the area trying to pass. But when we look at it from a risk perspective dangerous cycling behavior is like hand-throwing a rock where as dangerous driving behavior is more like shooting from a cannon.
 
mmm thats akin to someone sayin motorcylists are responsible for 172 - you earned that hate

not right.

not the end of the world

this thread sounds kinda like mr and mrs whiner from SNL lol
I’m not going to sit here and blow smoke up anyones butt about whose holier then thou, but I’m tired of this general stance by cyclists that their **** don’t stink and they are always the victims on the road way. (Not directed at anyone here.)
 
I haven't found myself so bothered by them it ruins my ride.

I also don't complain that there are roads I can't ride my bicycle on because cars pass way to close. so I change my route or ride on the sidewalk.
not a big deal. both sides should share the road, but they don't. shrug.
 
I love how Lakeshore eastbound is closed what, every Sunday? That's really cool.

Another great idea was when they made a bike lane on Brimley Rd that nobody used and was taken down later. Genius. $80k super cool use of tax payers money.
 
I find it funny to read motorcyclists hating on cyclists...do your criticisms not remind of you anything?

"they don't follow the laws!!"
"they think they own the road!!"
"they need to change their behavior so my much more justified use of the road can continue unabated"
- car people bitching about motorcycles

cyclists should ride single file - if you see them riding double file on a busy road or road with poor visibility, it's worth reminding them
 
I find it funny to read motorcyclists hating on cyclists...do your criticisms not remind of you anything?

"they don't follow the laws!!"
"they think they own the road!!"
"they need to change their behavior so my much more justified use of the road can continue unabated"
- car people bitching about motorcycles

cyclists should ride single file - if you see them riding double file on a busy road or road with poor visibility, it's worth reminding them
I'll honk at the peleton when they are riding like pricks. More often than not, that gets me the bird. Entitled pricks. If they are riding single file, I try to wait for an opening to pass safely as they are doing the best they can.
 
I grew up in Campbellville , which is halton's ground zero for road weenies, and has been since the bike boom in the 70's . Its been a problem for decades with guys and gals that just don't appreciate how dangerous it is for a car ( doing the 70kph limit) to crest a short hill and find 5-6 bikes , 2-3wide doing 20kph.

I used to cycle with a group , one of our crew went home in an ambulance getting clipped by a car in stupid circumstance , he pulled out to sprint up a hill past two slower riders and swung into the car that was trying to pass. Car may have been to close , bike didn't even shoulder check. I was well behind and watched.

Lot of bad judgement on all fronts right now, however the cyclists aren't doing themselves any favors. Apparently cyclist got clocked pretty well at Guelph line and 1sd rd yesterday playing Tour de Stupid with a car. There are rules of gross tonnage, get right of way.
 
I find it funny to read motorcyclists hating on cyclists...do your criticisms not remind of you anything?

"they don't follow the laws!!"
"they think they own the road!!"
"they need to change their behavior so my much more justified use of the road can continue unabated"
- car people bitching about motorcycles

cyclists should ride single file - if you see them riding double file on a busy road or road with poor visibility, it's worth reminding them
Totally, this thread reads exactly the same as car drivers complaining about motorcyclists but I encounter a lot more cyclists riding side by side than motorcyclists riding like idiots. In my area at least.
 
I've literally never seen a shoulder check from a cyclist.
It’s well disguised, you probably missed it. They perform it during the action to flip you off or tell you to get stuffed.
 
I've literally never seen a shoulder check from a cyclist.
Garmin makes a radar (Varia) so you don't need to break your aero position to know you are about to get run over. It flashes on your head unit to tell you there is a car and can flash the tail light as well if they get close. Personally I turn my head. I don't want to be a squished bug.
 
Garmin makes a radar (Varia) so you don't need to break your aero position to know you are about to get run over. It flashes on your head unit to tell you there is a car and can flash the tail light as well if they get close. Personally I turn my head. I don't want to be a squished bug.
This might be the case for some of these wannabe tour de France cyclist types. But there's also a huge chunk of people that are more so the "I'm just a human riding a bicycle" cyclists that dgaf about aero position. Or shoulder checks for that matter.
 
Two weeks ago on Lakeshore in Oakville a friend got clipped on his bike , landscaping truck swung out and pashed him, seemed to forget the trailer they were towing and swung the trailer fender into him , he curbed and landed on grass. No real damage but the landscaper never stopped, probably no idea.
Shoulder check wouldn't help him. Scratched his 80's steel Pinarello which was sad.
 
I know this is a debate, largely because there is little enforcement of peleton or side by side style riding. The HTA says riders must give way to faster traffic by pulling right, and may not ride side by side if impedes the normal flow of traffic.

I'm all for cyclists sharing the road, but like the rest of the road users they should have rules and those rules should be enforced.


A couple of other things that I'd change.
1) Remove the reverse onus law. Toronto based studies place equal blame on cyclists and drivers (33% cyclists, 33% motorist and 33% joint) yet motorists have the bigger burden when it comes to liability.
2) Where bicycle lanes have been afforded, cyclists should be limited to those lanes and prohibited from using the auto lanes for anything but turning or avoiding obstacles in bike lanes.
3) Make riders using the road produce drivers licenses if they have one to police officers to facilitate appropriate assignment of HTA offences.
4) Specifically outline rules regarding single file and peloton style group riding in the HTA.

1 YES. Pedestrians, too.
2 YES. If there's a bicycle lane that's separate from the motor vehicle lane, bicyclists should be excluded from the motor vehicle lane just as motor vehicles are already excluded from the bicycle lane.
3 Pretty sure that's already the case - they have to identify themselves if charged with an offence, whether that's by driver's license or otherwise.
4. HTA 147(1) and 148(6) already exist, although there's zero enforcement.

"Any vehicle <note, "vehicle", not "motor vehicle" ... a bicycle is still a "vehicle"> travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway."

"Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass ..."

A cop cruising the backroads who comes up behind bicycles that don't move to the right upon hearing the approaching car, should hit the lights and pull them over.
 
Sounds like everyone's talking about Halton, and cussing out the "boys" from Neworld Cycle (black on yellow toothpate tubes - you can't miss them). They're the worst of the worst in the area for blatant entitlement and herd mentality douchery. Strange, because the guy that owns the shop and the employees are cool people. His "ambassadors", not even close.
 
Sounds like everyone's talking about Halton, and cussing out the "boys" from Neworld Cycle (black on yellow toothpate tubes - you can't miss them). They're the worst of the worst in the area for blatant entitlement and herd mentality douchery. Strange, because the guy that owns the shop and the employees are cool people. His "ambassadors", not even close.
Is he vegan?
 

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