State Farm renewal raises my Super Sport rate 275% on BMW

Putting people on ignore lists on a message forum is the online equivalent of this.

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But hey, whatever makes you feel better. I don't use ignore lists (never have, never will) because I'm mature enough to just ignore things and move along without the need for the forum software to do it for me. Like water off a ducks back, as they say.

Hardly, I just feel you have nothing to contribute to any discussions on here and that your opinionated rambling posts serve absolutely no purpose other than confusing new riders, shilling your insurance company, bitching and moaning about those younger than you and not contributing to the community in any meaningful way.

I use the ignore list - which is you and one other guy, congrats - because I don't want to be caught reading your nonsense and wasting time forming a reply. Kind of like this one.

Ok then, why don't you show me the data that State Farm was insuring SS bikes at a loss for the last 10+ years because of their "low rates" and now they're out of business, so they got bought out as a result of that...

Building on what I said in the other thread, it seemed as though State Farm's main problem with SS bikes (a very small part of their entire company) was mainly paying out on theft and medical expenses for the riders. If Rider A hits Car A, Rider A's insurance company doesn't pay out to Car A, they pay out to Rider A. They were still turning a profit off the low rates, but the rates were still artificially low because they used an antiquated rating system that was mainly based on engine size and location. That's why the new rating system comes into play because they know they can raise rates and retain a portion of the market that can afford to pay to play and lose the market which mainly includes people that also theoretically won't have the money to cover their own expenses and are more likely to come after their insurer for a bigger payout. It also lets them tap into the big cruiser and tourer market, who have less incidents per km but more incidents overall to the SS market. With that said, the large displacement low HP market also is generally financially stable, double-insured through their workplace with benefits and salary paid. This means less costs for the insurer.

It also makes SF competitive in the Car and Commercial markets, where the rating system is also getting changed and where they were getting SLAYED by every other company, mainly the Economical Group for years. Desjardins has competitive rates and strong coverage packages, State Farm has fantastic marketing and an international structure, so buying them out but leaving the brand intact is a great business decision for them. The only small market this affects negatively is SuperSport owners and even then, the die-hards will suck it up and pay extra and those that can't afford it will likely move on to different bikes where they will still get competitive rates.

Mind you this is all based on internal documents I don't have access to and a candid talk I had with an Underwriter and Agent, so take it for what it's worth.
 
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Hardly, I just feel you have nothing to contribute to any discussions on here and that your opinionated rambling posts serve absolutely no purpose ...etc etc... not contributing to the community in any meaningful way.

Am I opinionated? Hell yeah. The rest, your opinion based on the fact you and a few others don't agree or aren't interested in listening to or even considering differing opinions if they don't fit your own, even if the differing opinions from others are often factually based.

...and I always find it interesting that people who claim to have others on their ignore lists still seem to respond to their posts more often than not.

Ok then, why don't you show me the data that State Farm was insuring SS bikes at a loss for the last 10+ years because of their "low rates" and now they're out of business, so they got bought out as a result of that...

It evident that they weren't going to go out of business insuring the SS market otherwise they would have dropped it long ago, but as others have mentioned it seems they've effectively had a change of heart and decided that the risk profile involved warranted higher fees to justify continuing to underwrite the risk. So, they're not "going out of business", but to use the Dollarama analogy from the last post they may have decided that they couldn't afford to charge $1 for most items anymore and not operate on a break-even basis with the risk of loosing money in a bad year, so they increased the prices to $3 for most items instead.
 
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Ok then, why don't you show me the data that State Farm was insuring SS bikes at a loss for the last 10+ years because of their "low rates" and now they're out of business, so they got bought out as a result of that...
Because I wasn't the one making statements as though they were factual as you were. I was merely pointing out that in the absence of actual factual stats there could be alternative scenarios at play. You on the other hand were making statements with no factual backup, (saying Desjardins is committing theft with the new rates). You have nothing to back up that statement. I freely admit I have NO idea why SF made their decision and why Desjardin is making the moves they are. BUT, they are apparently doing nothing that is not being permitted by the rules as they are currently set out by FSCO.

I also never said that SF is "out of business" as they aren't their book of business was purchased by another company who has decided to increase the SS rates to bring them more in line with "market rates" (as determined by the other companies currently insuring SS bikes).

It appears that Desjardins, has simply made a BUSINESS decision to bring the SS rates, (which were artifically low from SF, given that EVERY other company that insured SS's were higher), more into line with "market rates". Perhaps you missed the concept in any business or economic classes you may have taken but business are, (if they have shareholders and plan to remain viable), expected to make a profit on their book of business. If there are 5 companies offering a product to the market and 4 are very similarly priced, and one is considerably lower then logic would tell us, that the one company who is considerably lower, either has a VERY small portion of the market share, or they are trying to increase their market share by offering that product as a loss leader. To show this concept in another market segment. A huge grocery chain ususally has milk priced lower than corner stores. This is because of their size and profit margins in other product lines they offer milk as a loss leader, to get people into the store in hopes they will also buy higher margin products. The local corner store knows your not going to come in and buy a bag of milk and spend $200 on other products, which have a higher profit margin, so they offer the milk at market rates.
 
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This was an interesting and useful thread until a few pages ago. Hope that like me anyone trying to get something good out of it stopped reading then.
 
This was an interesting and useful thread until a few pages ago. Hope that like me anyone trying to get something good out of it stopped reading then.

This whole forum was pretty busy and useful before the 3 brainwashed robots showed up.
If they made a new law today stating you had to put giant mudflaps on your superbike, these guys would find a way to defend it.
Because braindead. No self thinking. Common sense broken. Enjoy being told what to do and say.
 
This whole forum was pretty busy and useful before the 3 brainwashed robots showed up.
If they made a new law today stating you had to put giant mudflaps on your superbike, these guys would find a way to defend it.
Because braindead. No self thinking. Common sense broken. Enjoy being told what to do and say.

If one thinks allowing the free market to operate is not common sense but would rather have government intervention, The same govenrment that has given us such gems as s172 then go ahead.

No one here knows what the other companies will do with SS rates. We have been told that SF/Desjardins is raising their rates. At some point if offering lower rates for SS bikes makes good business plan, then someone will fill the void. But I would prefer that option toletting the government get their hand anywhere near this.

I am the last person to defend ANY insurer, I currently, have two pending lawsuits, (one against my insurer and one against the sport bike rider who hit me). I also spent time this morning on a conference call with a mediator from the FSCO to determine if I get approval for further required treatment, (I have three medical personnel advising in favour of the treatments, and the insurer has one dr paid by them who saw me for 20 minutes 10 months ago). So do I think the insurance system in Ontario is in serious need of overhaul, I certianly do I just don't these fiberals anywhere near it
 
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This was an interesting and useful thread until a few pages ago. Hope that like me anyone trying to get something good out of it stopped reading then.

Agreed. It would be great to keep this post on track. Looking forward to more updates on this specific issue.
 
What made State Farm unique was that it was a company owned by policyholders (the actual insureds), unlike all other insurers which are owned by shareholders and where the focus is primarily on higher profits rather than on the customer. State Farm could afford to keep rates lower, and even promote ridiculously low rates in any category (region/vehicle/age group/whatever) that they so chose eg. sport bikes.

So while State Farm has existed in Canada since the 1930s it answered to the policyholders and which meant that when there were profits,they were plowed back into expansion for setting up new brokerages across Canada. There was not as much pressure on State Farm management to make a profit, unlike shareholder companies which all demand a good rate of investment return.

But in the last 5 years the Canadian operation was hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars, and the parent operation in the USA packaged the Canadian operation off to Desjardine/Certas. Too bad this happened, they were a good company for a long time and which I dealt with over the last 20 years, but there is no excuse for consistently incompetent Canadian management. Rates will now be more in line with the rest of the industry, or may even be worse for sport bikes, if an individual company targets these as risks to avoid.
 
This was an interesting and useful thread until a few pages ago. Hope that like me anyone trying to get something good out of it stopped reading then.

Agreed. It would be great to keep this post on track. Looking forward to more updates on this specific issue.

Obtained an online quote from TD and was quoted $1900. year without an attached car policy (no multi vehicle discount.)
This is equivalent to last years state farm policy (for a solo policy....not sure what the discount would be if I add a car policy to the mix).
But there seems to be a few people on other posts saying that Td is getting out of the motorcycle insuring business with Td restructuring their insurance business.
Not sure what the situation is here but will be calling TD this week to find out.
 
Not sure that's a fair comparison at all. It doesn't cost more to put Kid "A" through school vs Kid "B", it effectively (unless you want to get into special needs and such which are outside the scope of this debate) all costs the same and there's no inherent risks involved that make one kid more costly than the other to educate, so the Ferrari vs Cavalier, 16 years old vs 25 argument doesn't really translate IMHO.

In my head I keep coming back to the other hot thread right now on the kid who got caught red-handed with 172. Some time down the road when he gets his bike and licence back and wants to go out and try to get insurance again I don't want to be subsidizing his rate - HE made his choices and HE can now pay for them. I made mostly wise choices when I was young, continue to do so to this day, and am quite enjoying the benefits accordingly. I have absolutely zero interest in paying a bunch of extra money every month to subsidize the bad choices of people like that.

And yes, I realize I'm painting with a broad brush here so far as younger drivers - not all are clueless testosterone enraged rice boys who want to race at every stoplight, but they are still statistically proven to be risker, and I think we are talking about a segment of the young insured who have racked up a record, not those who are actually conscientious drivers who have maintained a clean record and will probably continue to. It's rather ironic given the discussion, but I bet if you talked to an underwriter it's those kids (who are driving conscientiously) who are effectively subsidizing their peers who are the aforementioned Fast and Furious freaks...but we shouldn't be placing that burden on a whole different age range, experience level, and risk category of drivers who paid their money and did their "time" when they were younger themselves.

I paid over $400/month to insure my 83 Yamaha Seca900 (which was considered a SS back then) when I started riding in 1993. I in no way felt that gramps living nextdoor driving his Buick Century somehow should be obliged to "chip in" and help me pay for my privilege of enjoying what was effectively a luxury for me at the time.

Are you serious? In 1993 I was 20 years old, paying around $900 a year on a 91 zx7r. $400 a month for an 83 seca is insane. :(


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My wife rides a 1996 ninja 250r, has been with State Farm for 3 years. She has been paying $50/month=$600/year, full coverage. Just got her renewal, $1348 for 2016. This for a 40 year old woman with 4 seasons on a 250, 26 years with a g1, no tickets/accidents/claims, and lives in the sticks. Called TD, got a quote for a fz600 for her at $875 full coverage. She won't be with Desjardins come spring.


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My wife rides a 1996 ninja 250r, has been with State Farm for 3 years. She has been paying $50/month=$600/year, full coverage. Just got her renewal, $1348 for 2016. This for a 40 year old woman with 4 seasons on a 250, 26 years with a g1, no tickets/accidents/claims, and lives in the sticks. Called TD, got a quote for a fz600 for her at $875 full coverage. She won't be with Desjardins come spring.
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I expect there will be a deluge of policy holders leaving Desjardins aka State Farm aka Certas this spring.
 
Are you serious? In 1993 I was 20 years old, paying around $900 a year on a 91 zx7r. $400 a month for an 83 seca is insane. :(

I was an M1 rider with full coverage (which in itself was a huge part of the price), and back then 750cc (which your zx7r was) seemed to be the breakpoint for reasonable vs crazy rates. The Seca was a 900. Not sure what that insurance breakpoint is today, seems to be around 600 now?

I got quotes on smaller CC bikes that were drastically less..and had I chosen liability only I could have saved a lot as well, but the Seca fell into my lap, I didn't want to risk riding without the full coverage, and I had plenty of disposable income back then, so I did what I wanted to do. Looking back on it now it was one of my more foolish decisions at that age, but hindsight is 20/20 right?
 
^Still, we're talking a zx7r and a Seca900. I can't even imagine anyone thinking a seca is a ss in 1993. Lol


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I jut left them, went with a different company and I am paying a hell of a lot less. Not going to seat around waiting for my policy to go up 300%. To your point, SF is also the only company that does not make policy holders pay an early cancellation fee, so there will be I suspect many people leaving.

I expect there will be a deluge of policy holders leaving Desjardins aka State Farm aka Certas this spring.
 
Obtained an online quote from TD and was quoted $1900. year without an attached car policy (no multi vehicle discount.)
This is equivalent to last years state farm policy (for a solo policy....not sure what the discount would be if I add a car policy to the mix).
But there seems to be a few people on other posts saying that Td is getting out of the motorcycle insuring business with Td restructuring their insurance business.
Not sure what the situation is here but will be calling TD this week to find out.

Thanks for the update. Good to know there's still hope to get a relatively comparable rate. Looking forward to hear what the multi-vehicle rate will be.
 
My wife rides a 1996 ninja 250r, has been with State Farm for 3 years. She has been paying $50/month=$600/year, full coverage. Just got her renewal, $1348 for 2016. This for a 40 year old woman with 4 seasons on a 250, 26 years with a g1, no tickets/accidents/claims, and lives in the sticks. Called TD, got a quote for a fz600 for her at $875 full coverage. She won't be with Desjardins come spring.


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So it's not just the super sport category then? Still a 200+% increase for a 250 beginner bike? Maybe they're looking to get out of the motorcycle industry as well.
 
^Still, we're talking a zx7r and a Seca900. I can't even imagine anyone thinking a seca is a ss in 1993. Lol

You're talking a nearly 10 year newer bike however. And I was paying for full coverage including colission. Expensive stuff.

The XJ was much maligned, but it was a decent bike. Rode it for several years until I realized I barely had time to ride anymore..and then I bent the shift fork one day, decided I didn't want to be bothered fixing it, and sold it. Drifted away from riding for nearly 20 years after that.

Anyhow, we're off topic.
 
So it's not just the super sport category then? Still a 200+% increase for a 250 beginner bike? Maybe they're looking to get out of the motorcycle industry as well.

They call it a ss, because it has an "r", as in ninja 250r. Lmao a 96 250 is a ss.


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I called my SF agent because of this thread. I asked the agent if she could tell me what my renewal rate would be (March) or at least a general ballpark estimate of how much of an increase i should expect; she said it's too early to find out my renewal and doesn't have any idea how much SS's will go up by.
So I asked her to run me a new quote for the new year, she said the system wouldn't give the increased 2016 quote until january.
 
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