Speed limits

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shootingrubber said:
This is FLAWED logic. It's how we're trained. We grow up from as early as kids thinking you can go just slightly over the speed limit. I think most drivers on the road in Canada would say that the speed limits are too low, especially highway speeds. If you set speed limits to what a wide portion of the population would consider "fair", and they were HEAVILY enforced, you'd have A LOT less people speeding. GUARANTEED.
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If we were brought up to go slightly over the speed limit as kids, and some people speed all the time (20-30 over) without getting ticketed, why would a raised limit break their habit?
Even if this were to be implemented, it would have to go through multiple municipalities and I doubt that would ever happen. No speed limit would be considered "fair" to most of the population in the GTA as opinions range from "speeds are too fast I'm scared" (noob drivers) to "speeds are way too slow" (seasoned drivers).

This will stretch into the field of retests for drivers licenses.
 
There is no reason to raise the speed limit. All I am reading from you guys is that the police should enforce the limit now instead of letting people go 120.

It is stupidly easy to do the speed limit, whereas it is actually difficult to speed because if the idiots that don't get over.
 
Robp said:
There is no reason to raise the speed limit. All I am reading from you guys is that the police should enforce the limit now instead of letting people go 120.

It is stupidly easy to do the speed limit, whereas it is actually difficult to speed because if the idiots that don't get over.
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That's not what I said at all.
 
PLau said:
If we were brought up to go slightly over the speed limit as kids, and some people speed all the time (20-30 over) without getting ticketed, why would a raised limit break their habit?
Even if this were to be implemented, it would have to go through multiple municipalities and I doubt that would ever happen. No speed limit would be considered "fair" to most of the population in the GTA as opinions range from "speeds are too fast I'm scared" (noob drivers) to "speeds are way too slow" (seasoned drivers).

This will stretch into the field of retests for drivers licenses.
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Really?

I think them getting a bunch of speeding tickets in a short time period would break their habit. Oh, and the insurance premium increase with said tickets.

Also, aren't most drivers seasoned drivers? Most of the population over the age of 25 have had their drivers license for 5+ years. Why would it even change for noob drivers? If they were increased they'd still be like "speeds are too fast I'm scared"...
 
Robp said:
There is no reason to raise the speed limit. All I am reading from you guys is that the police should enforce the limit now instead of letting people go 120.

It is stupidly easy to do the speed limit, whereas it is actually difficult to speed because if the idiots that don't get over.
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Who's "you guys"? Its more like half of us disagree and half of us agree.
 
shootingrubber said:
Really?

I think them getting a bunch of speeding tickets in a short time period would break their habit. Oh, and the insurance premium increase with said tickets.
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And those that don't care? Not everybody is strapped for cash. Insurance premiums? Tickets can be fought and mostly won if you have the right people representing you.

shootingrubber said:
Also, aren't most drivers seasoned drivers? Most of the population over the age of 25 have had their drivers license for 5+ years. Why would it even change for noob drivers? If they were increased they'd still be like "speeds are too fast I'm scared"...
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Raised limits means the traffic around them would be moving even faster creating an even bigger risk if they were to do something stupid.

When I say noob drivers, I'm also referring to people that had their license for a long time that have aged and drive like a noob - not just new drivers.

Don't forget, new or inexperienced drivers thinking they can multitask while behind the wheel.
 
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I think higher limits would be good... just enforce the hell out of them...

Honestly tho, I don't see too many people ripping up the highways at much faster than 130... if you get a $500 fine for going 140 it'll stop a few people.

Another thing is that cruising above like 120-130 gets expensive on fuel...
 
Mr.K said:
it's almost like we're having a discussion, or something :agave:
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Lol, Damn, GTAM distracting me from doing my work....
 
If I could have it my way, I would have passing lane on the highway be unlimited for speed.

<___________________<
 
PLau said:
And those that don't care? Not everybody is strapped for cash. Insurance premiums? Tickets can be fought and mostly won if you have the right people representing you.



Raised limits means the traffic around them would be moving even faster creating an even bigger risk if they were to do something stupid.

When I say noob drivers, I'm also referring to people that had their license for a long time that have aged and drive like a noob - not just new drivers.

Don't forget, new or inexperienced drivers thinking they can multitask while behind the wheel.
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You mean like 5 percent of the population who makes over 100k a year? 75 percent of Canadians reported having an income of less than 50k in 2009. 95 percent less than 100k. You think most Canadians have the money to fight constant tickets and pay for people to represent them?

Yeah because doing something stupid at 110 km/h will likely cause less damage than doing something stupid at 130 km/h?
 
There is ample research indicating that it is not correct that raising the speed limit raises the average speed by the same amount that the limit is raised. People drive at the speed that they are comfortable at. On motorways (whether Europe, USA, or here), that's normally somewhere near 120 - 130 km/h. If the speed limit is set higher than that, people won't drive faster than what they feel comfortable with.

It's true on the Autobahn: while it is true that there is the occasional high-end vehicle that is really moving along, the reality is that for every one of those, there are at least 10 each of Opel Corsa 1.2, VW Golf non-turbo diesel, Ford Mondeo towing a trailer longer than the car, and the like, and those regular run-of-the-mill cars driven by normal average people are doing 120 - 140 km/h.

It's true in the USA: Several areas out west have raised speed limits to 80 mph (a little over 130 km/h), and the carnage predicted by the safetycrats has not happened. Even Ohio has been looking at raising their 65 mph limit (still higher than us!) to 70, which would be the same as most of the states in the area. If you take I-75 to Florida, Ohio is the only one left that has not changed it to 70 mph. Carnage has not ensued. The long-term decline in motor vehicle fatality rates has continued while the speed limits have gone up.

Reasonable speed limits allow and encourage the police to take their primary focus off speed limit enforcement and onto other things ... like distracted driving, failure to stop at stop signs and traffic signals, and the like. You know ... things that are primary causes of collisions, rather than just contributing factors.

Speed limits are supposed to be set to a speed that 85% of the population will "naturally" drive at or slower than, if they are left to their own devices to set their speed (cover up all the speed limit signs and tell the cops to get lost, then measure what 100 people do under free-flowing traffic conditions in good weather. The speed that the 15th-from-fastest driver is doing, should be the speed limit.)

I would bet that our 400-series speed limits are near the 1-percentile, not the 85th-percentile.

Our secondary roads are probably almost as under-posted. Most of those posted at 80 should be 90 or 100 km/h, and there are some posted at 60 or even 50 that ought to be 90 or 100.
 
shootingrubber said:
Yeah because doing something stupid at 110 km/h will likely cause less damage than doing something stupid at 130 km/h?
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This supports my point about "doing a little more". Have you ever been in an car crash or a fall?
 
One other thing is the stopping distances.

In where I come from, there are two different speed limits: one for passenger vehicles, the other for commercial or heavy vehicles:
130km/h for the regular cars
90km/h for the taxis, trucks, buses etc.

This at least makes more sense. Treating a brand new state-of-the-art sports car with an 18-wheeler is when the speed limits get stuck at 60km/h IMO.
 
shootingrubber said:
Car crash, yes. Fall, no.

Look to Brian P's post above. He points out some really good arguments in favour of raised speed limits.
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Yup, I read, and understood it, but your statement, is in your words, "Flawed logic"
 
Brian P said:
There is ample research indicating that it is not correct that raising the speed limit raises the average speed by the same amount that the limit is raised. People drive at the speed that they are comfortable at. On motorways (whether Europe, USA, or here), that's normally somewhere near 120 - 130 km/h. If the speed limit is set higher than that, people won't drive faster than what they feel comfortable with.

It's true on the Autobahn: while it is true that there is the occasional high-end vehicle that is really moving along, the reality is that for every one of those, there are at least 10 each of Opel Corsa 1.2, VW Golf non-turbo diesel, Ford Mondeo towing a trailer longer than the car, and the like, and those regular run-of-the-mill cars driven by normal average people are doing 120 - 140 km/h.

It's true in the USA: Several areas out west have raised speed limits to 80 mph (a little over 130 km/h), and the carnage predicted by the safetycrats has not happened. Even Ohio has been looking at raising their 65 mph limit (still higher than us!) to 70, which would be the same as most of the states in the area. If you take I-75 to Florida, Ohio is the only one left that has not changed it to 70 mph. Carnage has not ensued. The long-term decline in motor vehicle fatality rates has continued while the speed limits have gone up.

Reasonable speed limits allow and encourage the police to take their primary focus off speed limit enforcement and onto other things ... like distracted driving, failure to stop at stop signs and traffic signals, and the like. You know ... things that are primary causes of collisions, rather than just contributing factors.

Speed limits are supposed to be set to a speed that 85% of the population will "naturally" drive at or slower than, if they are left to their own devices to set their speed (cover up all the speed limit signs and tell the cops to get lost, then measure what 100 people do under free-flowing traffic conditions in good weather. The speed that the 15th-from-fastest driver is doing, should be the speed limit.)

I would bet that our 400-series speed limits are near the 1-percentile, not the 85th-percentile.

Our secondary roads are probably almost as under-posted. Most of those posted at 80 should be 90 or 100 km/h, and there are some posted at 60 or even 50 that ought to be 90 or 100.
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One of the best posts I've ever read.
 
Zoodles95 said:
Are you sure your co-worker was not doing something goofy and the officer gave him the 10 over because he could not prove/enforce the other infraction?
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Well that's what I thought and asked him that but he said he was just doing that speed and cop decided to pull him over. Said he was speeding, end of story. My head hurts from tickets liket that.
My other buddy got pulled over last week for driving and eating an apple at the same time :-/ Got a warning.

I don't want to drive on this planet any more...
 
PLau said:
Yup, I read, and understood it, but your statement, is in your words, "Flawed logic"
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Not really. Ever heard of the hurt report? Just want to add this to the discussion:

"The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph. Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision avoidance problems. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear wheel, and underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was essentially absent."
-Dr Harry Hurt PhD, USDOT Hurt Report

Most accidents happen at low speeds. Therefore, statistically speaking, increasing the speed limit will have a negligible effect.
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