So if the shooter is black...

I don't see how thats even relevant. he could be the biggest ******* out there, the key part to me is that you can't confront someone, then pull a gun when he starts kicking your ***.

From Wikipedia:
Zimmerman asserted self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Martin attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.

From the same Wikipedia:
The police told the Orlando Sentinel, that Zimmerman told them that after he followed Martin, he lost track of him and was returning to his car. Zimmerman reported Martin then confronted him and asked "Do you have a problem?". Zimmerman said he replied no, and then reached for his cell phone. Zimmerman then alleged that Martin punched him in the face, knocking him down, and then began to beat his head against the ground. Zimmerman states that he called out for help while being beat, and that he then shot Martin in self defense.

And another snippet:
According to Durell Peaden, one of the sponsors of the Florida law, the law does not say that a person has a right to confront another. "When [Zimmerman] said 'I'm following him', he lost his defense."[97]

If all of it can be believed, the Wiki article stirs up a lot of mud.

There appears to be no indication that either Martin or Zimmerman knew each other so previous records are irrelevant. Does however, Zimmerman's claim of losing sight of Martin turn the hunter into the hunted?

If so what is reasonable defense?

1) A person sees what they perceive as a suspicious character and calls police. Responsible action.

2) Said person follows character and is told by police that "You don't need to do that". He is not told to stop, only that he doesn't have to follow. Said person says "OK" but that only acknowledges that the message was received. It does not clearly indicate the person has agreed to stop following. Is said person wrong for doing more than the minimum?
My initial reaction is no, if done prudently. We have a communication problem.

3) Said person loses sight of character and while trying to get his bearings the character circles around and confronts said person.

4) Upon being confronted and as conflict ensues said person pulls a weapon in self defense. Is he wrong?

This appears to be Zimmerman's line of defense.

At this point it is "he said, they did" and a bunch of unsubstantiated opinions. Zimmerman is 25, 27 or 28 years old, had a car, had a truck. For some reason everyone is very clear on Martin having Skittles candies.

If Martin had survived the shooting he could claim he was being stalked and stood his ground only to be shot for doing so.

If this goes to court it'll be another O J Simpson circus.

What is so so wrong here is that the police call the shots on an arrest. I can accept that as an initial reaction but any time there is a questionable death if there isn't a trial there should be an inquest to determine the facts and if further action is needed.
 
Even those laws would not cover the guy's *** if he's the one who initiated the confrontation. Otherwise, I can start walking around with a gun, picking fights with random strangers and "defending myself" with a gun if they end up being better fighters.

agreed..BUT..the story supposedly is he chased him , lost him then walked back to his car where treyvon confronted him, grabbed him and threw him to the ground and smashed his head off the sidewalk. Police report confirms Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and the back of his head was bloody. As well a witness now says he heard and saw Zimmerman on his back being attacked and yelling help help.
 
The solution based on Florida law is that Martin should have been carrying a gun and just shot Zimmerman when he was stalking him instead of confronting him. Is this really the message Florida law enforcement wants to send?

Shoot first. Then confront your stalker. Its the legal and safer way to do things I guess.


I just can't stand all those talking heads like Geraldo who are putting blame on Martin wearing a hoodie. The hight of stupidity. This is not an issue with gun centric laws and a paranoid population (because of the same talking heads) it must be the hoodies fault.
 
Even if i go into a house to steal stuff, I don't think I should be killed but that is just me

I know that at least one member that used to own an R1 agrees with me :)


Do the residents know that you're just there to steal stuff? Do they know that you're not there to rape and murder them?

I am 100% A-OK in full support of castle doctrine.

So if you had a wife and kids in your house and a burgler breaks into your home you don't think it's alright to kill the burgler because it's over petty theft?

This
 
From Wikipedia:
Zimmerman asserted self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Martin attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.

3) Said person loses sight of character and while trying to get his bearings the character circles around and confronts said person.

As a member of neighborhood watch he doesn't know his neighborhood?
Why would he need to step out of his vehicle to see a street sign?
 
Even if i go into a house to steal stuff, I don't think I should be killed but that is just me

Are you kidding me? Listen if someone breaks into my house where my children are sleeping, I don't know them, they were not invited...I have every right to protect me and my children and possessions. If I am a registered law abidding gun owner I should have every right to blow a hole in you. You are there unwelcomed and up to no good. You really ought to be careful whose house you enter then ZX600.
What about that 18 year old girl down south (I think Texas) that lived in a farmhouse with her new born baby, just buried her husband because of cancer 1 week prior. Two guys poisoned her dogs and came to the house a few times staking it out. She was on the phone to 911 explaining that a man is breaking in "I have a shotgun and handgun in my hands, do I have the right to shoot to protect my baby?" The 911 lady said I can't give you permission to shoot him but you have the right to use what force you have to to protect you and your baby. She blew the piece of s@#$ away as soon as he forced his way through the door (which was barracaded with a couch). Other than to harm her why was he there??? He got what he deserved. In that case it was either her or him. At least now that little baby boy will grow up with his mother.
If the same situation happened here in Canada she would be arrested for murder. This country is a joke when it comes to your rights. I'll take the jail time rather than not seeing my baby grow up.
This case with Zimmerman is completely different. He is completely guilty of murder.
 
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Even if i go into a house to steal stuff, I don't think I should be killed but that is just me

Are you kidding me? Listen if someone breaks into my house where my children are sleeping, I don't know them, they were not invited...I have every right to protect me and my children and possessions. If I am a registered law abidding gun owner I should have every right to blow a hole in you. You are there unwelcomed and up to no good. You really ought to be careful whose house you enter then ZX600.
What about that 18 year old girl down south (I think Texas) that lived in a farmhouse with her new born baby, just buried her husband because of cancer 1 week prior. Two guys poisined her dogs and came to the house a few times staking it out. She was on the phone to 911 explaining that a man is breaking in "I have a shotgun and handgun in my hands, do I have the right to shoot to protect my baby?" The 911 lady said I can't give you permission to shoot him but you have the right to use what force you have to to protect you and your baby. She blew the piece of s@#$ away as soon as he forced his way through the door (which was barracaded with a couch). Other than to harm her why was he there??? He got what he deserved. In that case it was either her or him. At least now that little baby boy will grow up with his mother.
If the same situation happened here in Canada she would be arrested for murder. This country is a joke when it comes to your rights. I'll take the jail time rather than not seeing my baby grow up.
This case with Zimmerman is completely different. He is completely guilty of murder.

Are you forgetting the Case close to home?
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2011/03/30/17814876.html
 

I did not even know of that case. How very very sad. I actually feel sick to my stomach now that I have seen that.
"He might have been too high on alcohol and drugs to form the necessary intent to be legally found guilty of first degree murder." Are you kidding me????? And in Canada he will be out on the streets in no time. What a great justice system!
 
I did not even know of that case. How very very sad. I actually feel sick to my stomach now that I have seen that.
"He might have been too high on alcohol and drugs to form the necessary intent to be legally found guilty of first degree murder." Are you kidding me????? And in Canada he will be out on the streets in no time. What a great justice system!

Yep, sometimes the system here makes me sick. They shift blame on the alcohol.

There was a thread discussing that a while back:
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?149450-Good-ol-USA&highlight=good+ol'+usa
 
I like the way you think RockerGuy.
I actually got to another link from yours that had all different kinds of cases. I think the Americans have it right with the "Make my Day" law. If you don't break in to peoples houses you won't get shot...it's simple. They know their state laws and the consequences. They took the risk the home owners weren't armed and lost.
 
I like the way you think RockerGuy.
I actually got to another link from yours that had all different kinds of cases. I think the Americans have it right with the "Make my Day" law. If you don't break in to peoples houses you won't get shot...it's simple. They know their state laws and the consequences. They took the risk the home owners weren't armed and lost.

You should read the case where they caught a track thief in the US. They actually give him a beating before they sent him to jail.

The sheriff declared "we just needed to take him to hospital before we can take him to jail"
 
agreed..BUT..the story supposedly is he chased him , lost him then walked back to his car where treyvon confronted him, grabbed him and threw him to the ground and smashed his head off the sidewalk. Police report confirms Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and the back of his head was bloody. As well a witness now says he heard and saw Zimmerman on his back being attacked and yelling help help.

If a kid was being stalked by a man in a motor vehicle, his actions might even be considered "self-defense". So, the killer was driving around with a firearm, stalking a minor.. Talk about an upstanding citizen :cool:
 
If a kid was being stalked by a man in a motor vehicle, his actions might even be considered "self-defense". So, the killer was driving around with a firearm, stalking a minor.. Talk about an upstanding citizen :cool:

Pretty much..
 
Even those laws would not cover the guy's *** if he's the one who initiated the confrontation. Otherwise, I can start walking around with a gun, picking fights with random strangers and "defending myself" with a gun if they end up being better fighters.

So if you are going to get beaten to death you aren't going to pull your weapon out?

Unfortunately for this kid he doesn't have witnesses? Maybe I'm wrong?
 
FAns of Will Smith got thoroughly confused last Friday when a tweet from @RealWiIISmith went viral: "WE live in America where a girl that threw flour on Kim Kardashian was arrested on site. But the man who KILLED Trayvon Martin is still free"
 
So if you are going to get beaten to death you aren't going to pull your weapon out?

Unfortunately for this kid he doesn't have witnesses? Maybe I'm wrong?


You can pull your weapon out, you can't just assert self defense.
 
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