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Showrooming

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While I agree the world changes and businesses need to adjust actual "showrooming" is a unique problem that reflects on the integrity of the buyer. Going to B&M stores with no intention of buying there, to see the product in person (try it on or whatever), then to order it online (the intention all along). Yes sometimes there is a big savings, more times than not it is not totally huge.

Online shopping is of course hurting B&M, some are/were adjusting by improving service, now people take the service for free and then buy online from the lowest seller (by cents sometimes)... Buying online, base your purchases on the online pictures... When buying online it tends to be huge volumes and in many cases even drop shipped. Most B&M cannot compete just on price.
 
backmarkerducati said:
While I agree the world changes and businesses need to adjust actual "showrooming" is a unique problem that reflects on the integrity of the buyer. Going to B&M stores with no intention of buying there, to see the product in person (try it on or whatever), then to order it online (the intention all along). Yes sometimes there is a big savings, more times than not it is not totally huge.

Online shopping is of course hurting B&M, some are/were adjusting by improving service, now people take the service for free and then buy online from the lowest seller (by cents sometimes)... Buying online, base your purchases on the online pictures... When buying online it tends to be huge volumes and in many cases even drop shipped. Most B&M cannot compete just on price.
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The big question is why can't the B&M dealer close the business? If the customer walked into the B&M store, they are likely ready to buy. If the B&M store is only engaged in a price game -- simply put they aren't competing.

This might not be a great example, but it's an example that just happened to me. I needed some work shoes, I spend a lot of time on my feet in a professional setting and I prefer a brand that's hard to find. I found them on Amazon but needed to be certain on the sizing so I went to a local HBC to try on some similar styles. The shoe guy told me the size an style I was after was not in stock -- there were too many styles and sized to stock in the store. The guy looked up the styles on the supplier website, then Amazon.ca -- then he offered me the same price, and free shipping to my house . No question's asked I didn't like them, simply return them to the to B&M store. How could I say no? He competed, he got my business.
 
has the returns going to landfill thing been verified?
I always assumed they ended up at auction in lots
and from there to the liquidation stores

sburns said:
As for local bike shops. If they all were run like GP Bikes maybe more of them would be around. I've gone into some smaller shops and gotten a quote on something, and just went whoa, I've already looked up the price online and said to them I can get this for better, and gotten a shrug basically. GP seems to know the market better with pricing and will match it if pressured, and the staff is always friendly. So there is more to this then just shoppers being diligent.
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I can't figure out GP

beautiful, purpose-built building
inventory out the wazoo
competitive pricing
tons of staff on the floor

must be laundering money
 
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J_F said:
I can't figure out GP
beautiful, purpose-built building
inventory out the wazoo
competitive pricing
tons of staff on the floor
must be laundering money
Click to expand...

There's a lot of backdoor help from the distributors, much like Fortnine and Pete's Superbike.
When you agree to inventory large volume you get extra discounts, generous return policies, advertising and consumer show assistance they step up.
If you're looking at loss leaders what about places like Maranello ? The only time I set foot in there it was crickets.
 
I stopped buying from Amazon because of the environmental and ethical implications. I am no fan of big box stores either (Walmart, Best Buy, etc). **** 'em all. I will buy small B&M and online local businesses first if I can. With online stores, if you have a small business, and your shipping is reasonably fast, you will be the first to get my business when I'm looking for something specific

I have never returned something I have bought online. Think carefully before you buy, like Brian said. I have always written it off as a gamble. If it's not what I want, maybe I'll sell it locally, or donate it. But that doesn't happen often
 
Agree with Mad Mike. B&M need to be competitive. Have had price matched(to US pricing) before from a B&M and bought there.
 
J_F said:
has the returns going to landfill thing been verified?
I always assumed they ended up at auction in lots
and from there to the liquidation stores



I can't figure out GP

beautiful, purpose-built building
inventory out the wazoo
competitive pricing
tons of staff on the floor

must be laundering money
Click to expand...

Jerry (I think is the owner) is a smart guy. He's grown the business organically, from a small strip mall storefront selling used bikes to what we see now. The current location used to be a racquetball/squash club so though he likely got it at a reasonable cost he had to do extensive renovations, n0ot to mention the recent addition.

He also doesn't appear to have much turnover in the full-time staff, as I've see the same faces there for many years which speaks well for him as a boss and also for the organization.

As a dealer they have focussed on 3 (relatively) small niche brands whose customers are more willing than others to spend extra on their hobby, which is a pretty desirable customer base, and adding Honda at this stage is pretty smart as their product range will bring in a different customer segment.

At the same time, the guy works very hard. He's ALWAYS there and on Saturday evening at the bike show he was still in the booth at closing time.

He certainly "gets it", and deserves a lot of credit for creating sustained success in a really tough business where so many others have come and gone.
 
The term showrooming really revolves around people going to the B&M with no intention of buying there to see the product and to try it on etc...they have already decided they will buy online before they left home. It is hard to compete with that. That is where people need to look at their own personal integrity.

As for price and selection. There is a huge cost to stock all options at every store, so expect there to be a price premium for that. Also, the online guys may be moving huge volumes or just drop shipping from the manufacturer (no actual inventory) and in many times they are selling at a price point that B&M cannot (and sometimes lower than B&M's overall costs).
 
sburns said:
This whole thing of returns going into a landfill has been going on for a lot longer then online shopping has been around. Back in the day I use to work in retail and around this time of year we would throw out tons of items. Employees were not allowed to purchase them or take them home. Most surprising was the amount of books, going straight to the landfill, not even recycled. Reason, it was a write off for the company and I guess with sneaky accounting it was better for them this way then.
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Related story in the news just today:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/carters-discarded-clothes-dufferin-mall-1.5420166

"Woman shocked to find new children's clothes cut up in garbage outside Dufferin Mall"
-Kid's clothing retailer Carter’s says clothes were disposed of for 'safety reasons'
 
From the (admittedly short-term) manufacturer/retailer perspective ... every piece of clothing that you give away (or sell deeply discounted) is a piece of clothing that you can't sell for a profit. If you give away too much, there's no one left willing to pay money for it.

You can blame the fashion industry for some of this ... no one wants last year's style. How can individuals address this? Skip the fashion stuff. Only buy clothing that you are going to use, and then use it until it's unserviceable. Comes into the household as a piece of clothing ... leaves as dirty rags, having progressed through going-out-for-dinner clothing through going-to-work clothing to work-around-the-house clothing to work-in-the-shop clothing to cleaning-up rags to wipe-up-grease rags.

This is really a separate problem from "showrooming" although the problem of what to do with returned clothing ties into it via what Amazon does with returned clothing items.
 

"
That's because donated clothing is just the tip of the iceberg: some 85 per cent of clothing in North America isn't even making it into a bin where it may get a second life, and is instead going directly in a landfill, according to SMART, a group that represents for-profit companies in the recycled textiles industry, including Value Village and Bank & Vogue.

Author Elizabeth Cline puts the blame on our own shopping habits.

"The consumer is at fault here," Cline said. "We're the ones that are buying too much stuff and then we want our unwanted things to somehow be good for the world. It's really crazy. It doesn't make any sense."
"
 
Its not just price, and the return/exchange aspect, but many other variables to consider, the odds are heavily stacked in favor of e commerce.
A lot of times stuff I actually walk in to buy either isnt available or they dont carry. Went to two wheeled in Guelph to buy gear, their selection was (as admitted to by staff) pitiful. I was looking for a quality leather jacket for my size, they had all the mesh in the world, and a few pieces of leather, but all for Valentino sized dudes, none for ol big poppa.

I was recently looking for a specialized axle removal tool, after getting a cheap poor quality chinese knockoff, I decided to try local stores...
most of them didnt have it, some didnt bother to pick up the phone, some were closed for the motorcycle show.

Ended up getting a more reputable brand name one from fortnine, fits perfect.
 
xrljoel said:
Jerry (I think is the owner) is a smart guy. He's grown the business organically, from a small strip mall storefront selling used bikes to what we see now. The current location used to be a racquetball/squash club so though he likely got it at a reasonable cost he had to do extensive renovations, n0ot to mention the recent addition.

He also doesn't appear to have much turnover in the full-time staff, as I've see the same faces there for many years which speaks well for him as a boss and also for the organization.

As a dealer they have focussed on 3 (relatively) small niche brands whose customers are more willing than others to spend extra on their hobby, which is a pretty desirable customer base, and adding Honda at this stage is pretty smart as their product range will bring in a different customer segment.

At the same time, the guy works very hard. He's ALWAYS there and on Saturday evening at the bike show he was still in the booth at closing time.

He certainly "gets it", and deserves a lot of credit for creating sustained success in a really tough business where so many others have come and gone.
Click to expand...

the inventory at GP is lousy in store. Never have sizes or certain styles shown on the website to try, and right now i'm dealing with a warranty issue going on for 3 months back and forth, always told they will call me, no one does. I've gone in to look for things, and get told to just buy it online after driving the hr to get there. Great the owner is hard working and all, though It's looking flashy vs functional as a store to me now. They should have a system like Sail or MEC where it shows which store has what in stock or available online. Heck, MEC has a rock solid guarantee on everything and outdoor clothing gets abused, its hassle free and why a B&M is useful.
 
J_F said:
has the returns going to landfill thing been verified?
I always assumed they ended up at auction in lots
and from there to the liquidation stores



I can't figure out GP
beautiful, purpose-built building
inventory out the wazoo
competitive pricing
tons of staff on the
Click to expand...


Yeah, but GP also offers web sales.
The only people actually visiting their location are those willing to make the trip.
I've bought from their website, but I'm not going to make the trip over/through Toronto to visit their store
 
Brian P said:
Skip the fashion stuff. Only buy clothing that you are going to use, and then use it until it's unserviceable. Comes into the household as a piece of clothing ... leaves as dirty rags, having progressed through going-out-for-dinner clothing through going-to-work clothing to work-around-the-house clothing to work-in-the-shop clothing to cleaning-up rags to wipe-up-grease rags.
Click to expand...

+1 Add to that not changing size for 30 years, my closet is big with different sections for mint, still ok for business, mess around/relaxing and grunge work and then rags.
 
backmarkerducati said:
The term showrooming really revolves around people going to the B&M with no intention of buying there to see the product and to try it on etc...they have already decided they will buy online before they left home. It is hard to compete with that. That is where people need to look at their own personal integrity.
Click to expand...
I agree that many people go to the store with no intention of buying... however I disagree that it's the B&M store who fails if the customer leaves to go complete the deal offline. Retail stores have to up their game or die -- they are used to competing with other B&M stores, the stronger ones are adapting (GP bikes, HBC are just 2 examples we have heard of here). If they want to continue to watch customer come-see-go, that's exactly what will happen and eventually they will be closing stores. If they evolve and put the effort into competing, they will end up thanking the Internet retailers for sending them qualified customers.
backmarkerducati said:
As for price and selection. There is a huge cost to stock all options at every store, so expect there to be a price premium for that. Also, the online guys may be moving huge volumes or just drop shipping from the manufacturer (no actual inventory) and in many times they are selling at a price point that B&M cannot (and sometimes lower than B&M's overall costs).
Click to expand...
The stock issue is irrelevant for the most part -- B&M stores have the same warehouse and drop ship capabilities afforded to online retailers. In fact they have an even better opportunity -- they can provide service and advice that's hard to deliver online. Don't underestimate what people will pay for advice and service -- simply taking the time to understand the customer's needs then advising them on the best solution is all you need to close a sale. If you don't deliver that value add then again, you're not competing.
 
@Mad Mike Congrats to your wife on her success! That's a hell of a good month at 40k!

Personally I'm guilty of using Amazon way too much. Being away I just can't get rid of the convenience that it brings. I set my order a week before I come home from site, and everything is waiting at home for me. Mind you, everything I buy is used, and I'm typically the one that will buy used when I can to save money, and not be wasteful. However, sometimes it's just not an option.

I've only returned one item in all the years I've used Amazon, and that's because it was a garbage case that when it went over my phone, the phone was effectively useless.

I cancelled 2 orders due to never showing up from China, and outside of those 3 issues I've never had a problem.

I don't go to stores to 'showroom' as if I'm in the store and I find something that I like, so long as the price isn't a huge difference, I'll just buy it on the spot due to convenience.
 
I'm old enough to remember the main street shop owners moaning about the new Walmart on the edge of town. Guy was saying that the exact same bicycle in his shop cost him more to buy from his wholesaler/distributor than the Walmart retail price to consumers, so how could he possibly make a living..... Well, truth is 98% + of customers voted with their feet and pocketbook and all of these small and inefficient retailers went out of business. While that's a sad thing that someone went bankrupt please don't expect me to pay a premium for your product to keep you in business.

In terms of bike shops I've been a customer since the early 70's for sales, service and parts. I can tell you that with a few exceptions, and GP bikes is one of these, it's been a pretty sorry experience overall. Rude, indifferent and inattentive staff, minimal inventory on hand, long lead times, poor work quality and poor accountability. In addition, we here in Canada have Motovan and Parts Canada that own and/or control all of the authorized distribution channels for virtually all bike non OEM related brands and this creates a very high cost structure and very inefficient inventory control processes. So it's no wonder that bike owners cut out all of the middle men possible and shop online instead.
 
Back in the day, there were times when the B&M/M&P shops bought some of their inventory from the big box shops with lower than wholesaler/distributor cost. Convenient for those that didn't want to go as far as the big box.
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