Shopping list for 2013 track season

[Bickle Racing]

Calabogie 20 corners plus 2 A's and B's so really 22 corners. 8 lefts 12 rights and 9 major elevation changes of 65 feet.
Mosport 10 corners,,one braking corner and horsepower will certainly help.Screw up 8 and you screw up ten. Screw up 4 and you
hurt your terminal speed up the back straight.
So yes, if you can hold it open,,[and most people don"t even know what that means] You will mess your pants.
If corner 2 at Mosport does not scare you, you are not human or stupid. And if Four does not make you an honest man you are stupid.
Bogie,,, Horesepower does not really matter,, cars or bikes. Every straight is preceeded by a sequence of corners so get the corners wrong,, you
don't see your terminal speed on the straight.
Two totally different tracks,, not even comparable,,but a true rider that can handle being humbled will like both. Each for their own qualities.
One thing for sure Bogie will make you ride Mosport better.
Get a false sense of your abilities they will both spank you.

 

[Shaman]

I like both tracks, have no issues with Mosport other than that if anything, I feel it's less safe than Calabogie, partly because at 'bogie the surface is so good and well designed. You *do* understand what subjectivity is, right?

Having said that, I not only top out sixth gear at 'bogie coming into 5 but usually well before I've at the first braking marker. Holding it open all the way there would put me at about 14,000 RPM which is not so great for valves in a GSX-R 1000 (and to prove it, every exhaust valve in the motor was tight when I serviced it this fall with Z1). So if you're not achieving this, then yes you are not fast enough because I'm over 200 pounds in leathers and my bike will do it every lap. I daresay that if I take three teeth off the rear sprocket to give the motor its sweet spot around 12,500 I could carry another 15km/h or better.

Coming into 5 on the passing line, you are coming into the corner at the very top of sixth gear on a shallow line that will force you to brake into a downhill transition and turn the bike hard to put you back onto the fast line. Although technically I think you have so much less distance to travel on the line, it's probably the best line E.T., blocking and passing... just more intimidating because you will definitely float the rear tire if you misjudge body position or brake point.

And because for some reason people don't seem to believe this, here it is on video.

-- EDIT: the video tag doesn't support time stamping, so jump to about 7:10

[video=youtube;e8I4PFl4-Gs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e8I4PFl4-Gs#t=434s[/video]

-- EDIT: the video tag doesn't support time stamping, so jump to about 7:10

Note that I was not doing my best laps because of the temp that day (0 degrees when I went to shower) and the motor had, as reported, 8 tight valves... barely outrunning a stock S1000RR down the straight, so that was my cue, along with a tendency for the motor to run on a bit after I'd closed the throttle. Brett McCormick was 10 seconds faster than my best lap and probably 15 seconds a lap faster than what I had here on video. Just imagine... I have trouble getting my head around it... but there's no trophy or prize money at a track day...

All the way through 5th gear into Temptation, and I brake gently, on a fast lap I'm well inside #2 marker before I brake but it was still cold with patches of 5 degree pavement in the shade. Tire spin over the mountain and into 10 in 5th gear while braking leaned over and pushing hard through 11, up to 12. It's all there in the video if you want it. Something tells me there are some people talking about 'bogie that haven't spent time on the track...

And you call it a slow track? Jeebus, I can't picture what you think a fast track is, but it ain't Mosport.

 

[Shaman]

Oh yeah, and those are the Bickle gloves I was talking about. :lmao:

 

[Fiery254]

I like both tracks, have no issues with Mosport other than that if anything, I feel it's less safe than Calabogie, partly because at 'bogie the surface is so good and well designed. You *do* understand what subjectivity is, right?

Having said that, I not only top out sixth gear at 'bogie coming into 5 but usually well before I've at the first braking marker. Holding it open all the way there would put me at about 14,000 RPM which is not so great for valves in a GSX-R 1000 (and to prove it, every exhaust valve in the motor was tight when I serviced it this fall with Z1). So if you're not achieving this, then yes you are not fast enough because I'm over 200 pounds in leathers and my bike will do it every lap. I daresay that if I take three teeth off the rear sprocket to give the motor its sweet spot around 12,500 I could carry another 15km/h or better.

Coming into 5 on the passing line, you are coming into the corner at the very top of sixth gear on a shallow line that will force you to brake into a downhill transition and turn the bike hard to put you back onto the fast line. Although technically I think you have so much less distance to travel on the line, it's probably the best line E.T., blocking and passing... just more intimidating because you will definitely float the rear tire if you misjudge body position or brake point.

Note that I was not doing my best laps because of the temp that day (0 degrees when I went to shower) and the motor had, as reported, 8 tight valves... barely outrunning a stock S1000RR down the straight, so that was my cue, along with a tendency for the motor to run on a bit after I'd closed the throttle. Brett McCormick was 10 seconds faster than my best lap and probably 15 seconds a lap faster than what I had here on video. Just imagine... I have trouble getting my head around it... but there's no trophy or prize money at a track day...

All the way through 5th gear into Temptation, and I brake gently, on a fast lap I'm well inside #2 marker before I brake but it was still cold with patches of 5 degree pavement in the shade. Tire spin over the mountain and into 10 in 5th gear while braking leaned over and pushing hard through 11, up to 12. It's all there in the video if you want it. Something tells me there are some people talking about 'bogie that haven't spent time on the track...

And you call it a slow track? Jeebus, I can't picture what you think a fast track is, but it ain't Mosport.

Humour me here, but I'm just doing the math. And (from memory) McCormick was running about 2.04s that day. That would put your laptime about 2.19 and your best around 2.14 (which is very good). I run 2.17s on a stock 600 and don't consider myself a fast rider. I'm a great bloke and I make a mean curry but i'm not fast. So what's your point here? Showing us a video of yourself in a "shopping list for 2013" thread of you going not particluarly fast around Calabogie? I don't get it. Tell me what I'm missing.

 

[Fiery254]

One thing for sure Bogie will make you ride Mosport better.

I'd go further and say being decent at Calabogie will help you on any future track you ride on. It has a bit of everything (apart from a Laguna Seca corkscrew).

 

[Shaman]

Brett's best is 2.00.x and most of the time I'm lapping in the 2:14-2:17 range. My best is 2:10.xx on an infrared lap timer, which I'm going to replace with a GPS timer since I've found the infrared keeps losing laps on me.

Like I said re: that video, those weren't my best laps, it was 0 degrees that morning and at 10:30 the air was 10C but the track was anywhere from 2C-5C still and shaded areas remained cool. Two accidents that I know about in corner 2 that morning blamed on cold. But you gotta use the video you have...

Best official times:

Stohr WF1, GSXR 1000, Bruce day 2008	1:59.52
New Lap Record, Brett McCormick, Suzuki GSX-R1000, Parts Canada Superbike Pirelli superpole, May 23rd 2009	2:00.251
Yamaha YZF-R1	2:01.213
Kawasaki ZX-6R	2:01.200
Buell 1125r	2:04.584
BMW HP2	2:06.256
Suzuki SV650s	2:15.461

What my point was... people saying that Calabogie isn't fast is just false. That bike has 16/44 gearing right now which is at least 285km/h at redline. It'd look a lot faster on video if it wasn't a helmet cam, as well... my tank cam is a lot more indicative but the camera gets in my way at 'bogie because I'm tucked in so much in several spots on track. The video is there so that people can realize they're wrong about speeds on that track and move on.

 

[doozerdave]

I think you guys may be bickering on two separate points. Top speed vs average speed.

Brett's time at 'bogie puts him at about 151km/h average (5.05km track).
Brett's lap record at Mosport is 1:21 which puts average speed at about 175km/h (3.957km track).

 

[dricked]

Nobody said it wasn't fast, just that mosport is faster.

Thats one fast sv.

 

[Shaman]

I like Mosport and will be there on the 8th of July (and possibly the event preceding if I can manage?) but to me it feels like a small track. The speed is very high, there are some fast corners and suddenly you're at the start/finish again almost like the Pro layout at Shannonvile, which I avoid for the same reason. Good times @ Mosport, no doubt. But... I think I made it clear which I prefer at this point.

Again, there are twice as many corners at 'bogie. 2,3,6,8,9,12,13,14,18,19,20 are all relatively low speed (primarily 3rd gear). There's a mix of 4th gear corners @ 4, 5, 7, 11, 17. That means that the fast corners at 1, 10, 15, 16 are probably as fast or faster than Mosport to be 25km/h within reach on overall average. What people seem to be missing here is that there is average speed may be lower, but the high speed straights and corners are still very well represented at Calabogie and the braking zones are often high speed and critical.

Swear to *@#^ that's my final word on it.

 

[ZX600]

Swear to *@#^ that's my final word on it.

 

[Shaman]

 

[Brian P]

For a track day, 2:14 - 2:17 on a cold day is plenty quick at Bogie. I haven't been there for a couple of years but IIRC I've managed around 2:30 ... but that's on a 20 year old 60 hp bike.

Mosport is a faster track. Calabogie is a fast but technical track.

I have a preference for tighter, technical, slower tracks, rather than those involving blistering fast top speed.

 

[doozerdave]

I have a preference for tighter, technical, slower tracks, rather than those involving blistering fast top speed.

I'm with you, Brian. I have a lot more fun on a track like SMP where I can focus on catching up through technical sections and passing on the brakes.

 

[Shaman]

Only one complaint about SMP.......... I feel my age. Hips and thighs are murder after a long day.

Dammit, I should get off gtam and order up two lightweight batteries to replace my POS antigravity models that both died this summer.

Oh, and I think I am gonna make Barber in February... w00t

[video=youtube;pYNrBNMr3TA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYNrBNMr3TA[/video]

 

[Fiery254]

Only one complaint about SMP.......... I feel my age. Hips and thighs are murder after a long day.

Dammit, I should get off gtam and order up two lightweight batteries to replace my POS antigravity models that both died this summer.

Oh, and I think I am gonna make Barber in February... w00t

Barber is closed until April. As far as I could tell when I was looking in November. I'd be happy to be shown wrong.

 

[Fiery254]

I have a preference for tighter, technical, slower tracks, rather than those involving blistering fast top speed.

Like JGP?

 

[murf]

I like Mosport and will be there on the 8th of July (and possibly the event preceding if I can manage?) but to me it feels like a small track. The speed is very high, there are some fast corners and suddenly you're at the start/finish again almost like the Pro layout at Shannonvile, which I avoid for the same reason. Good times @ Mosport, no doubt. But... I think I made it clear which I prefer at this point.

Again, there are twice as many corners at 'bogie. 2,3,6,8,9,12,13,14,18,19,20 are all relatively low speed (primarily 3rd gear). There's a mix of 4th gear corners @ 4, 5, 7, 11, 17. That means that the fast corners at 1, 10, 15, 16 are probably as fast or faster than Mosport to be 25km/h within reach on overall average. What people seem to be missing here is that there is average speed may be lower, but the high speed straights and corners are still very well represented at Calabogie and the braking zones are often high speed and critical.

Swear to *@#^ that's my final word on it.

Just looking at the numbers Bogies longest straight away is 2000 ft while Mosports is well over 3000 ft (0.75 miles), and Mosport is only 2.46 miles long.

Some folks Have an issue adjusting to the high corner entrance speeds at Mosport ...

 

[Tonto]

Brett's best is 2.00.x and most of the time I'm lapping in the 2:14-2:17 range. My best is 2:10.xx on an infrared lap timer, which I'm going to replace with a GPS timer since I've found the infrared keeps losing laps on me.

Like I said re: that video, those weren't my best laps, it was 0 degrees that morning and at 10:30 the air was 10C but the track was anywhere from 2C-5C still and shaded areas remained cool. Two accidents that I know about in corner 2 that morning blamed on cold. But you gotta use the video you have...

Best official times:

Stohr WF1, GSXR 1000, Bruce day 2008	1:59.52
New Lap Record, Brett McCormick, Suzuki GSX-R1000, Parts Canada Superbike Pirelli superpole, May 23rd 2009	2:00.251
Yamaha YZF-R1	2:01.213
Kawasaki ZX-6R	2:01.200
Buell 1125r	2:04.584
BMW HP2	2:06.256
Suzuki SV650s	2:15.461

What my point was... people saying that Calabogie isn't fast is just false. That bike has 16/44 gearing right now which is at least 285km/h at redline. It'd look a lot faster on video if it wasn't a helmet cam, as well... my tank cam is a lot more indicative but the camera gets in my way at 'bogie because I'm tucked in so much in several spots on track. The video is there so that people can realize they're wrong about speeds on that track and move on.

Guys, lets try and not get into a 'what track rider runs the faster lap times' at any given track- that's not really what the conversation was about, but more one of what track is considered 'faster' by a given rider. Getting into pi**ing contests over lap times on 1000'S? Eden O'Shell runs 2:17's all day long at Bogie, and he's 13 riding a 35hp RS125 .
Bic put it best, to a track day rider, each track is a tool to improve their skill, and each has something to teach the rider.

 

[Brian P]

Like JGP?

Yes, with the insinuation of why I'm not on the list yet, right?

Answer: Probably not this year. With (relatively) big bucks spent to upgrade my race bike, plus more to do a major freshening and overhaul on my ZX10R that is not finished yet (still waiting for parts), plus a car that is beyond 400K and which will be needing a timing belt and clutch at a minimum in the very near future, PLUS way too much "accounts receivable" and "income tax due" and not enough "paid" ... Too much on my plate. If everything that says "receivable" magically turned into "paid" overnight, all these problems would instantly be solved, but I'm not in control of that!

What dry time we had last year at Jennings was awesome, and I'll be doing it again.

 

[Fiery254]

Yes, with the insinuation of why I'm not on the list yet, right?

Answer: Probably not this year. With (relatively) big bucks spent to upgrade my race bike, plus more to do a major freshening and overhaul on my ZX10R that is not finished yet (still waiting for parts), plus a car that is beyond 400K and which will be needing a timing belt and clutch at a minimum in the very near future, PLUS way too much "accounts receivable" and "income tax due" and not enough "paid" ... Too much on my plate. If everything that says "receivable" magically turned into "paid" overnight, all these problems would instantly be solved, but I'm not in control of that!

What dry time we had last year at Jennings was awesome, and I'll be doing it again.

No insunuation here mate. Just a gentle ribbing. You know it's an open ticket.