Riding the Valley these days....hope the the City keeps the Don HOV lanes permanent..

[thephenom]

Forum Sponsor

Ok so all of us that currently live outside of Toronto and commute finally decide, we are no longer willing to do so. Tell us please where are we to live? There is NO overstock of surplus housing.

People made the choice to move 50km outside of the city, and that's the choice that drives them nuts commuting to work. Alternatives could be living in a condo, or another suburb closer to the city (and live in a smaller place). If you want the bigger house with a backyard at a bargain price, then you sacrifice your time commuting.

You forgot ONE other major option. To ove my job to a location closer to where I live, which then means Toronto, becomes a ghost town, resembling inner city Detroit with every other building shuttered. Good choice for Toronto. I would have no issue if the gov't had constructed another lane to MAKE and HOV lane. But to reduce the 401 to a two lane road is at best silly and poor planning. Plus not to have adequate transit in place compounds the issue.

Sure, if your business can do well outside of the city, why would you not move it closer to home? Seems like the obvious choice.

The province made that choice on the 401, not the city actually. So, give your MP a call and complain about that. For Toronto, they made DVP, Gardiner, and other local roads with HOVs.

Not everyone can take a train to Union then connect to go to work. What if you work closer to the 401? Your now not supposed to take basically a direct route to work but instead commute to the city core then TRY to find adequate transit to the northern regions? Ludicrous, but typical cnetralist Toronto thinking.

I agree Public transit doesn't solve everyone's commute, my problem only lies with those who is married to their cars while public transit is a viable option. I don't live anywhere near the downtown core nor do I take the TTC, but I also live only 10km away from work and work flex hours, so I avoid most traffic. My office will probably be moving in a couple of years, so I'll probably be making arrangements to move closer to the new location too.

They were discussing at length this morning how silly this entire fiaqsco is. First the gov't and PanAM have been for well over a month telling people to stay off the roads and consider leaving town, to help ease congestion. On Friday, the roads were lightly travelled not becasue people stayed home to work from home, but becasue they LEFT town. Then the organizers are complaining about slow ticket sales. Well guess what, if you tell people to stay at home or leave town you can't sell tickets to people doing what you told them.

Or maybe people just don't care about certain sports, or maybe people work during the week and can't attend the games, or maybe it's a trend of losing popularity like the Olympics has? Who knows, could be tons of factors involved. Though last time I checked when I was looking to go, weekend tickets were sold out for the more popular events. My view on the PanAM, I think it's cool that our city gets to host a "big" event like this, but I'm probably not cool when they talk about how much we'll actually lose for hosting the game. The extra traffic brought in from the games affects me, but it's nothing I can't plan around. Very much how I plan around not going downtown if they have closures for some festivals or charity events, etc. Even at work, my employer made plans for those who are affected by the extra traffic. These are the kind of plans every company should be implementing day-to-day even without the games. (e.g. Telecommute, work from a closer office, etc)

Just as an example I had to travel for a meeting from 407/404 area to Lawrence and DVP on Thursday statrting at 4:15 pm. It was 6:30 when I reached my destination, (Using the DVP HOV lane for the whole 1.6 km that it was available to me). That is 2 hours and 15 minutes to travel less than 20 KM total on a Motorcycle. It was just under 2 hours for the first 12 km of watching a few buses and aabout 15 Pan AM vehicles whiz by in the empty 404 HOV lane.

Big cities traffic sucks, big cities traffic sucks even more during rush hours. The 404 HOV lane is there regardless of PanAM, and that was an additional lane they constructed years ago. So I guess the DVP portion really killed your drive, which you could have avoided it by getting off at Finch and take the HOV on Don Mills going south which motorcycles could use. Pretty sure that drive would be a hell lot shorter than 2hr15m.

City traffic sucks and that's true everywhere in the world, but the further you move away from the city, the more strains you put on the infrastructure. Cities like Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, and Oshawa are all growing. With more and more people living away from the city, and them sticking to their cars, commute will only get worse and worse. Until people start carpooling, use public transportation if possible, drive less, then it's not going to get any better, and I think HOV lanes or congestion charges will help discourage people driving solo and encourage the smarter commute in general. Or the alternatives, encourage people to move back into the city, so they don't have to rely on the 4-series highways.

 

[LePhillou]

I think everyone should move closer to their jobs or look for jobs closer to them.
.

I'm lucky, I'm close enough to transit AND when i commute by motorcycle, (especially during the panam games) my commute is actually faster.


But being able to find an affordable house once you're not alone (say wife + kid) and you have 2 breadwinners in the house... it's not as easy to accommodate both routes within budget. For a starter family, a lot go for townhouses and according to those stats from TREB, that's a lot of money you have to shell out to be "close enough" to work, even if you're looking at peel, halton region...durham being a lot cheaper but then, further away. ( http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/market_watch/2015/mw1506.pdf ). When going in the city, the costs go even higher than that with an average of $435k for a townhouse... . Now take a young couple in their mid-late twenties... having 43k downpayment + 10k of various closing fees + costs of moving + all the new bills, etc... isn't given to everyone. So while it might be nice to be closer to work, its not always something that's an option for people getting into the market.

Anyhow, i like my HOVs lol

 

[ZX600]

I think everyone should move closer to their jobs or look for jobs closer to them.

There are enough businesses who either need to be downtown or want to be downtown and who's employees live within an easy commute or transit ride. Toronto will not become Detroit and businesses will not be pulling up left right and centre to move to the burbs. The only businesses I see move out of the downtown are manufacturing which makes sense as it can be done cheaper on the edges of the city. Chances are their employees also live outside of the core.

Transit is sorely lacking and needs to be an Ontario wide issue. Spending money on roads won't get better transit built. I think that a system of fast rail for the entire golden horseshoe needs to come about as opposed to building more lanes. The more lanes you build they will always be full. Improving transit from outlying areas to several downtown hubs would be a smarter long term investment. The more commuters you get off the roads the better commercial vehicles can get the job done around the city. Ideally roads need to be for those who require vehicles to transport equipment or goods for work.

I don't feel bad for commuters stuck in traffic. I made a conscious decision when buying a house to stay within easy transit access. Sure my house is small for the price but that is the choice I made to not sit in a car for hours on a day. That time is priceless to me. Commuting long hours is just unhealthy.

We not all work at McDonald's you know

 

[Chaos]

I don't want the HOVs to stay, but in the meantime, I am enjoying them for a nice loop around the city at night. Only place I can't use it is on the 427 southbound - their HOV is not marked for motorcycles, and I don't want to take the chance. But QEW, Lakeshore and DVP all have them.

 

[H4x0rz]

Para-Pan am games, the HOV along the 401, 404, etc. DVP FGX will be a 2 person HOV lates.. Just FYI , sometime after August

 

[hedo2002]

People made the choice to move 50km outside of the city, and that's the choice that drives them nuts commuting to work. Alternatives could be living in a condo, or another suburb closer to the city (and live in a smaller place). If you want the bigger house with a backyard at a bargain price, then you sacrifice your time commuting.

Sure, if your business can do well outside of the city, why would you not move it closer to home? Seems like the obvious choice.

The province made that choice on the 401, not the city actually. So, give your MP a call and complain about that. For Toronto, they made DVP, Gardiner, and other local roads with HOVs.
I agree Public transit doesn't solve everyone's commute, my problem only lies with those who is married to their cars while public transit is a viable option. I don't live anywhere near the downtown core nor do I take the TTC, but I also live only 10km away from work and work flex hours, so I avoid most traffic. My office will probably be moving in a couple of years, so I'll probably be making arrangements to move closer to the new location too.

Or maybe people just don't care about certain sports, or maybe people work during the week and can't attend the games, or maybe it's a trend of losing popularity like the Olympics has? Who knows, could be tons of factors involved. Though last time I checked when I was looking to go, weekend tickets were sold out for the more popular events. My view on the PanAM, I think it's cool that our city gets to host a "big" event like this, but I'm probably not cool when they talk about how much we'll actually lose for hosting the game. The extra traffic brought in from the games affects me, but it's nothing I can't plan around. Very much how I plan around not going downtown if they have closures for some festivals or charity events, etc. Even at work, my employer made plans for those who are affected by the extra traffic. These are the kind of plans every company should be implementing day-to-day even without the games. (e.g. Telecommute, work from a closer office, etc)


Big cities traffic sucks, big cities traffic sucks even more during rush hours. The 404 HOV lane is there regardless of PanAM, and that was an additional lane they constructed years ago. So I guess the DVP portion really killed your drive, which you could have avoided it by getting off at Finch and take the HOV on Don Mills going south which motorcycles could use. Pretty sure that drive would be a hell lot shorter than 2hr15m.

City traffic sucks and that's true everywhere in the world, but the further you move away from the city, the more strains you put on the infrastructure. Cities like Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, and Oshawa are all growing. With more and more people living away from the city, and them sticking to their cars, commute will only get worse and worse. Until people start carpooling, use public transportation if possible, drive less, then it's not going to get any better, and I think HOV lanes or congestion charges will help discourage people driving solo and encourage the smarter commute in general. Or the alternatives, encourage people to move back into the city, so they don't have to rely on the 4-series highways.

On the point I have highlighted yes the 404 HOV lane is a provoncial abonimation, BUT it the "new" DVP lane which STEALS a line from an existing road that causes the 404 to back up so badly, as you have 6 lanes, (2 from 401 east, 2 from 401 west, and 2 from DVP), all now forced into TWO freaking lanes as opposed to three lanes.

Of course the businesses will make the move to the burbs if these idiotic lanes reqamin in place after the games, (just listen to talk radio, mommy dearet Kathleen needs new money to blow on her friends, so she will convert them to toll lanes). The reason businesses will relocate is two pronged. Do you really think these business owners live in a 400 sq ft condo in the heart of the city..lol No many of them commute from their "estates" outside the city you think they want to do that on an ongoing basis? No as has been expressed here they "will move closer to their jobs" highly unlikely they will give up the bigger house in the burbs so next logical step is move the business closer. The second prong, you Toronto people saying move closer to your job, or change to a job closer. Well Toronto housing prices and lack of availbility make the first option unattractive for most, (not even considering that those with kids do NOT want to live in Toronto). So say a business with 10 employees has in the next six months three skilled people come to the boss and say they are taking a job outside of toronto. A smart employer isn't going to sit idlely by and cntinue to lose his staff to the competition. He is going to consider moving to cheaper suburb rent, and less hassle for his commute as well.

For the poster who said move my business. I already have moved it outside of Toronto.

People keep saying move INTO the city. Tell me if many of those who live in peel, york, and durham suddenly pulled up stakes and moved INTO Toronto where are they going to live? There is not an abundance of residences that could handle say 200,000 people suddenly pulling up stakes and moving. So the better alternative is they remain in the burbs and at all costs avoid Toronto. come into work and then leave don't shop there, don't eat there, and tell everyone you know it is because of the HOV fiasco. If we did this and business suffered you can bet they would be onto John Tory and Kathleen to scrap this ridiculuos PR move so the special snowfalkes who came here will think TO is a "world class city" when indeed it has reverted to third world traffic chaos. With no viable alternatives.

For the select few who find their commute better, congrats. BUT we should be doing what is best for the majority and not for the few.

Lastly, here is the MAIN reason being a rider I wouldn't live in Toronto. I have no desire to spend $400,000 on a 400 sq ft box, that I can't enjoy as I have to sit in the parking garage 24/7 to ensure my bike isn't carted off.

 

[CafeRay]

HOV lanes. WTF.
I drove across the GTA to Mosport this weekend and back. About 1/2 of cars in the HOVs were single drivers in the east end. The OPP was a patrolling on bikes, but all this accomplished was traffic from stops and accidents from people suddenly swerving into the right lanes when they see a cop.

There is no extra PanAm traffic. Perhaps Wynne is going to pay for the games with HOV ticket revenue. The pictures of the stadiums this weekend are hilarious, crowds of tens.

 

[CafeRay]

People keep saying move INTO the city. Tell me if many of those who live in peel, york, and durham suddenly pulled up stakes and moved INTO Toronto where are they going to live? There is not an abundance of residences that could handle say 200,000 people suddenly pulling up stakes and moving. So the better alternative is they remain in the burbs and at all costs avoid Toronto. come into work and then leave don't shop there, don't eat there, and tell everyone you know it is because of the HOV fiasco. If we did this and business suffered you can bet they would be onto John Tory and Kathleen to scrap this ridiculuos PR move so the special snowfalkes who came here will think TO is a "world class city" when indeed it has reverted to third world traffic chaos. With no viable alternatives.

The biggest boom communities in Ontario right now are Kitchener-Waterloo and Hamilton. Hamilton downtown is leasing all the office space they can build, and buildings are going up everywhere. This is driven by employer demand, as they can't pay employees to cover the cost of living in Toronto, and employees are getting fed up with commutes in a city that hasn't had any infrastructure upgrades in 40 years. Transit infrastructure MAY get completed around 2020-25, but it's a total joke compared to any city that size. What does exist is really only geared to 9 to 5 workers, but that's not all workers.
The problem is the city is caught up in a real estate bubble that has people so tapped out in debt that they cannot afford to pay the taxes they should be paying to invest in infrastructure, so the city has stagnated. A lot of business, industry buildings are now condo space, mostly bought on foreign speculation.
Most of Ontario now is now shifted to service industry, which doesn't need to be located anywhere in particular. This is why Burlington has boomed with financial businesses moved from Bay Street.

I get why someone in their 20s would live in the Downtown, but after that, people are not going to be raising families in 196sqft micro-condos and a TTC pass.

As for the Scam-Am games, the Chair of the Board is David Peterson, and the money is flowing like water into Liberal friend's pockets.

Toronto is moving to the NYC model, where the wealthy will live downtown, but NYC has a good transit system that moves millions on and off Manhattan every day.

 

[Veej]

Of course the businesses will make the move to the burbs if these idiotic lanes reqamin in place after the games, (just listen to talk radio, mommy dearet Kathleen needs new money to blow on her friends, so she will convert them to toll lanes). The reason businesses will relocate is two pronged. Do you really think these business owners live in a 400 sq ft condo in the heart of the city..lol No many of them commute from their "estates" outside the city you think they want to do that on an ongoing basis? No as has been expressed here they "will move closer to their jobs" highly unlikely they will give up the bigger house in the burbs so next logical step is move the business closer. The second prong, you Toronto people saying move closer to your job, or change to a job closer.
A smart employer isn't going to sit idlely by and cntinue to lose his staff to the competition. He is going to consider moving to cheaper suburb rent, and less hassle for his commute as well.

For the poster who said move my business. I already have moved it outside of Toronto.

So the better alternative is they remain in the burbs and at all costs avoid Toronto. come into work and then leave don't shop there, don't eat there, and tell everyone you know it is because of the HOV fiasco. If we did this and business suffered you can bet they would be onto John Tory and Kathleen to scrap this ridiculuos PR move so the special snowfalkes who came here will think TO is a "world class city" when indeed it has reverted to third world traffic chaos. With no viable alternatives.

.

Lastly, here is the MAIN reason being a rider I wouldn't live in Toronto. I have no desire to spend $400,000 on a 400 sq ft box, that I can't enjoy as I have to sit in the parking garage 24/7 to ensure my bike isn't carted off.

Yep all business will move out of Downtown Toronto....

This includes Municipal Govt, Provincial Govt, Major Hospitals and Research Centres down on University Ave, the TSX will move to Bowmanville hence be called the BSX, all major bank headquarters will be relocated to Burlington, all top law firms well they will work from their cottages... all lawyers have one we know. The AGO, ROM Hockey hall of fame will find shelter somewhere north like Barrie. The universities will be relocated to Waterloo in the soon to be empty Blackberry headquarters.

Harbour Front Centre, Centre island, the Exibition Place-CNE, CN tower, Rogers Centre, ACC, Ripley's Aquarium, St. Lawrence Market will be uprooted (we have the technology and know-how) so put them in Pickering. The island airport will be moved to Kingston, and since most businesses have moved east we will move Pearson to Peterborough.

Yonge and Dundas, Eaton Centre stores and surrounding mom and pop businesses will be evacuated and put into lets say Bowmanville, so the commute for those owners will be pleasant and they can sell their beloved Teslas and Land Rovers and cycle to their businesses -good for health and environment, obviously cause people hate to commute in their luxury cars all the way to Downtown, they would rather reverse out of their driveway and into the driveway a block away. They will then open their doors to each other...oh wait we will need to have them alternate the working hours cause if everyone opened their doors at the same time who would be the shopper!

The upscale stores of Bloor and Yorkville will move to Hamilton, and with them the trendy lounges and nightclubs, the Steel workers love the after hour boutique parties. TIFF will now be held in Stouffville take that D. Cronenberg! All trendy cuisine restaurants and diners alike will dispersed among the bedroom communities-Ajax, Barrie, Brampton, Oakville, Richmond hill, Pickering in alphabetical order to be fair. All summer and winter festivals will be held in random burbs just to keep it fresh! On Friday and Saturday night the burbs bored teenagers now can just hope from one burb to another no commute or driving necessary.

Cultural neighborhoods: Annex, Kensington market, Cabbage Town, China Town, Bloor west, Corso Italia, Cabbage Town, Queer St W. Distillery District, India town, well we'll send these mishaps and abominations to the burbs...and tell them "hey look how much land you can live on now...why would you stick it out in the little shanty 10x20 cells when you can have this massive backyard to mow, cultivate, manicure and roll on everyday..... Now you make little countries out of your cultural diversities... Queer street can now be Queer Country! Little India will become an independent India once again this time with-in Canada...

Toronto is doomed as all the business will leave, especially the ones that can, cause they were just sticking it for the hell of it in this already thick greasy traffic, cause everyone wants 4000 sq ft homes and acres of green grass,,, it's the HOV lane that broke the camels back.

All said and done anyone who commutes to downtown needs to be downtown employee, businesses and bosses alike, if you haven`t left already then you will never...and if don`t need to be.. you have already left....there's an underlying deep reason why John Deere tractors don`t have a show room in Yorkville.

BTW I`m loving my commute these days....

 

[hedo2002]

Who said anything about moving neighborhoods and cultural events and attractions?? Most of the things you have pointed to are visited AFTER business hours. I don't see families flocking to these during regular office hours.

Your so typical of a Toronto is the center of the universe, thinking that there is no possible way for a business to survive and thrice if they are not in the downtown core...lol. Fyi many banks and other large corps have and are moving their head offices out of the core.

I have no idea how the world's largest retailer hasn't gasped the concept that they care doomed to fail because their headquarters isn't in the downtown core.

Canadian tire, loblaw, Tim Hortons. What could these guys be thinking? Most of the large insurers aren't in the core. Gm, Honda, Toyota, none in the downtown core. But your spot on of course business MUST be in the core. Welcome to toronto, the new Detroit.

It is so ludicrous the you choose to name the municipal gov't that I won't even comment on that. Queens park is in toronto the provincial capital so yes they must stay. But why is the fed gov't have so much office space outside of the core.

None of these are BUSINESS. Which was the point of my post. So feel free to post examples of huge multinational corporations who in the last say 2 years have set up operations in the downtown core. I am sure the HOV lanes will and have attracted these corps to move. All hail the vaunted HOV....gmafb enjoy your commute to "Detroit north" do you happen to work on Georgio Mamoleties (sp) office???

Yep all business will move out of Downtown Toronto....

This includes Municipal Govt, Provincial Govt, Major Hospitals and Research Centres down on University Ave, the TSX will move to Bowmanville hence be called the BSX, all major bank headquarters will be relocated to Burlington, all top law firms well they will work from their cottages... all lawyers have one we know. The AGO, ROM Hockey hall of fame will find shelter somewhere north like Barrie. The universities will be relocated to Waterloo in the soon to be empty Blackberry headquarters.

Harbour Front Centre, Centre island, the Exibition Place-CNE, CN tower, Rogers Centre, ACC, Ripley's Aquarium, St. Lawrence Market will be uprooted (we have the technology and know-how) so put them in Pickering. The island airport will be moved to Kingston, and since most businesses have moved east we will move Pearson to Peterborough.

Yonge and Dundas, Eaton Centre stores and surrounding mom and pop businesses will be evacuated and put into lets say Bowmanville, so the commute for those owners will be pleasant and they can sell their beloved Teslas and Land Rovers and cycle to their businesses -good for health and environment, obviously cause people hate to commute in their luxury cars all the way to Downtown, they would rather reverse out of their driveway and into the driveway a block away. They will then open their doors to each other...oh wait we will need to have them alternate the working hours cause if everyone opened their doors at the same time who would be the shopper!

The upscale stores of Bloor and Yorkville will move to Hamilton, and with them the trendy lounges and nightclubs, the Steel workers love the after hour boutique parties. TIFF will now be held in Stouffville take that D. Cronenberg! All trendy cuisine restaurants and diners alike will dispersed among the bedroom communities-Ajax, Barrie, Brampton, Oakville, Richmond hill, Pickering in alphabetical order to be fair. All summer and winter festivals will be held in random burbs just to keep it fresh! On Friday and Saturday night the burbs bored teenagers now can just hope from one burb to another no commute or driving necessary.

Cultural neighborhoods: Annex, Kensington market, Cabbage Town, China Town, Bloor west, Corso Italia, Cabbage Town, Queer St W. Distillery District, India town, well we'll send these mishaps and abominations to the burbs...and tell them "hey look how much land you can live on now...why would you stick it out in the little shanty 10x20 cells when you can have this massive backyard to mow, cultivate, manicure and roll on everyday..... Now you make little countries out of your cultural diversities... Queer street can now be Queer Country! Little India will become an independent India once again this time with-in Canada...

Toronto is doomed as all the business will leave, especially the ones that can, cause they were just sticking it for the hell of it in this already thick greasy traffic, cause everyone wants 4000 sq ft homes and acres of green grass,,, it's the HOV lane that broke the camels back.

All said and done anyone who commutes to downtown needs to be downtown employee, businesses and bosses alike, if you haven`t left already then you will never...and if don`t need to be.. you have already left....there's an underlying deep reason why John Deere tractors don`t have a show room in Yorkville.

BTW I`m loving my commute these days....

 

[triniboy27]

Who said anything about moving neighborhoods and cultural events and attractions?? Most of the things you have pointed to are visited AFTER business hours. I don't see families flocking to these during regular office hours.

Your so typical of a Toronto is the center of the universe, thinking that there is no possible way for a business to survive and thrice if they are not in the downtown core...lol. Fyi many banks and other large corps have and are moving their head offices out of the core.

I have no idea how the world's largest retailer hasn't gasped the concept that they care doomed to fail because their headquarters isn't in the downtown core.

Canadian tire, loblaw, Tim Hortons. What could these guys be thinking? Most of the large insurers aren't in the core. Gm, Honda, Toyota, none in the downtown core. But your spot on of course business MUST be in the core. Welcome to toronto, the new Detroit.

I don't have a dog in this HOV fight but I just want to point out that it makes sense for most of the businesses you named to be located outside of the downtown core.

But to the previous posters' point, Bay street will still be the financial hub and there are a ton of affiliated businesses there to serve them. In fact, a large number of them are expanding their operations downtown and taking up even more office towers. Obviously, there are some operations where there's no need to be located downtown (Call centres, IT centers, etc) and those can be located outside of the downtown core.

I did laugh when John Tory made that point about keeping jobs in Toronto re: maintaining the POS Gardiner East.

 

[Veej]

Who said anything about moving neighborhoods and cultural events and attractions?? Most of the things you have pointed to are visited AFTER business hours. I don't see families flocking to these during regular office hours.

Your so typical of a Toronto is the center of the universe, thinking that there is no possible way for a business to survive and thrice if they are not in the downtown core...lol. Fyi many banks and other large corps have and are moving their head offices out of the core.

I have no idea how the world's largest retailer hasn't gasped the concept that they care doomed to fail because their headquarters isn't in the downtown core.

Canadian tire, loblaw, Tim Hortons. What could these guys be thinking? Most of the large insurers aren't in the core. Gm, Honda, Toyota, none in the downtown core. But your spot on of course business MUST be in the core. Welcome to toronto, the new Detroit.

It is so ludicrous the you choose to name the municipal gov't that I won't even comment on that. Queens park is in toronto the provincial capital so yes they must stay. But why is the fed gov't have so much office space outside of the core.

None of these are BUSINESS. Which was the point of my post. So feel free to post examples of huge multinational corporations who in the last say 2 years have set up operations in the downtown core. I am sure the HOV lanes will and have attracted these corps to move. All hail the vaunted HOV....gmafb enjoy your commute to "Detroit north" do you happen to work on Georgio Mamoleties (sp) office???

As I mentioned those who need to be downtown will always stay downtown, those that left...left many years ago and will never come back. I don`t see the London City UK becoming a Detroit after they introduced the tolls for Downtown, Detroit had problems unique to the other cities, it`s a whole new case study.

 

[drumstyx]

Ok so all of us that currently live outside of Toronto and commute finally decide, we are no longer willing to do so. Tell us please where are we to live? There is NO overstock of surplus housing.

You forgot ONE other major option. To ove my job to a location closer to where I live, which then means Toronto, becomes a ghost town, resembling inner city Detroit with every other building shuttered. Good choice for Toronto. I would have no issue if the gov't had constructed another lane to MAKE and HOV lane. But to reduce the 401 to a two lane road is at best silly and poor planning. Plus not to have adequate transit in place compounds the issue.

Not everyone can take a train to Union then connect to go to work. What if you work closer to the 401? Your now not supposed to take basically a direct route to work but instead commute to the city core then TRY to find adequate transit to the northern regions? Ludicrous, but typical cnetralist Toronto thinking.

This is just another example of why doing business IN Toronto is simply not a goid idea. I have no desire to locatemy business within the city.

They were discussing at length this morning how silly this entire fiaqsco is. First the gov't and PanAM have been for well over a month telling people to stay off the roads and consider leaving town, to help ease congestion. On Friday, the roads were lightly travelled not becasue people stayed home to work from home, but becasue they LEFT town. Then the organizers are complaining about slow ticket sales. Well guess what, if you tell people to stay at home or leave town you can't sell tickets to people doing what you told them.

I don't know of many people who can take 6 weeks off for this stupidity, (other than teachers). Personnaly, I haven't been taking the 401, No need to my commute is actually faster, and MUCH less dangerous to take artieral roads.

So make them toll lanes or keep them as HOV lanes but be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Just as an example I had to travel for a meeting from 407/404 area to Lawrence and DVP on Thursday statrting at 4:15 pm. It was 6:30 when I reached my destination, (Using the DVP HOV lane for the whole 1.6 km that it was available to me). That is 2 hours and 15 minutes to travel less than 20 KM total on a Motorcycle. It was just under 2 hours for the first 12 km of watching a few buses and aabout 15 Pan AM vehicles whiz by in the empty 404 HOV lane.

Sorry man, no sympathy. I live in Whitby, work downtown. I made that choice knowing what my commute looks like. Train happens to work for me. If it didn't I'd move closer to the city (or I would find a different job).

 

[Riceburner]

Moved to north GTA, got a job up there. Then job moved to downtown. Now I commute. Liking the HOV.

 

[PLau]

Moved to north GTA, got a job up there. Then job moved to downtown. Now I commute. Liking the HOV.

I'll be feeling your pain soon - Office moving downtown Toronto in a month

 

[unL33T]

Edit: Nevermind, post got all messed up and I'm too lazy to retype it. Forum doesn't play well with Firefox for me, lately.

 

[Benny!]

Lol to choosing to live outside the city. I'd live their if I could afford it.

 

[unL33T]

Lol to choosing to live outside the city. I'd live their if I could afford it.

"there" being in the city or outside?

 

[unL33T]

There are people making minimum wage or slightly above living downtown. Just have to make sacrifices. Live in a tiny condo, have roommates well into your 30s or 40s, own no vehicles, never travel outside the country, etc.

 

[drumstyx]

"there" being in the city or outside?

Could refer to either. It all depends on what you like to do in life. It's expensive to live in the city if what you like to do is work on bikes in the garage. It's expensive to live outside the city if what you like to do is go to downtown events.

Forum Sponsor