Riding the Valley these days....hope the the City keeps the Don HOV lanes permanent.. | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Riding the Valley these days....hope the the City keeps the Don HOV lanes permanent..

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Veej said:
You don't need an exact neighbor, just find a colleague who comes from the same area direction-east or west give or take 10 km alot of people do this thing called car pool, and their is something called the GO train if you come from those bedroom towns, (I guess when I said red rocket I should have said public transit- my bad). Also the DVP is paid by municipal taxes not Ajax, Brampton, Bowmanville or Kingston taxes....
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The City of Toronto gets a portion of the GAS tax to help with road, and infrastructure, (Including the DVP, which IS indeed paid by ALL Ontario drivers not just those IN Toronto), so yes WE do pay for those lanes. Sure again GO train works GREAT as long as you work within walking distance of Union or the other stops along THAT corridor. That is like me telling you that you should catch the GO bus at say Yorkdale, take it to Union then get on the TTC to get back up to Bloor.

As for the car pooling, sure IF you happen to have someone who works at the same location and lives within 10 KM or you, (which means now ANY time saving of the HOV lane is erased as I have to drive 10 kms to get this worker).

I can predict with relative certainity, that IF they decided to keep these HOV lanes, that more and more people will simply revolt and use them. The police can't stop them all, (remember TPS has been given EXTRA money due to the games to patrol them). If you run the HOV lanes daily, your chance of being ticketed, after the games are gone will decrease dramtically. The HOV lanes will no longer be a faster route, and will at some point become abused to the point of extinction.

The HOV lanes only benefit a VERY VERY small set of commuters. But lets screw the majority for the sake of the few choosen ones... That is not my idea of a good proposal.

Again there is a reason MANY businesses will not locate to Toronto and if this remains I can see a LOT more leaving. But hey again YOUR commute is great enjoy it for now. IF these lanes do stay I also predict the city WILL make them pay for use, they can then use the increased revenue to have them patrolled heavily as it will be a revenue generation model. Would you support pay for use? Or is the benefit only acceptable if it inconvienences hundreds of thousands of others and is FREE?
 
Veej said:
We're discussing the DVP HOV- they are 2 passengers requirement- not 3 like the 400 series.
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Ummmm... the DVP HOV is 3 people as well, not 2... at least until July 28th when it switches over to 2 people.
 
I understand, you had to say something, regardless of what that something was.
Veej said:
As I see it cagers and you in winter months have choices- ride the red rocket or 2 up and ride the HOV...not that hard to figure out...
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I think what theyre trying to push here is to have less of "Mr 1 person take his SUV by himself" all the time.

When i lived in brampton and commuted to mississauga, my workplace actually had a smartcommute community setup and i was able to find someone within 5 minutes of my house and carpooled with that person in the cage.

People dont wanna make an effort to do that, if so, those HOV lanes would find a lot more use. Instead people find other solutions that cost them money instead of saving themselves money AND TIME.
(ie. kijiji ads to pay to have a warm body in your car, buying mannequins)
If the same effort was put in finding someone in the neighbourhood that works in a similar area we'd be starting to get somewhere more efficiently.
 
can anyone confirm if the HOV lane will take me all the way to GP Bikes/Royal??
really wanted to take my truck because of what i was going to pick up (basically all new gear) is the HOV lane 2 or 3 in the vehicle on 401?
 
HOV is 3 person on the 401 and it ends at Westney, a couple of exits before Brock St (assuming this is the exit you'll take to get to GP).
 
Lets not forget that most of the police officers patrolling the HOV lanes are paid close to 6 figure salaries. Lets say they're working 160hrs/mth... they'd need to give out at least five $85 HOV lane tickets per day just to pay for their salary.

Obviously with math/taxes it's more complex than this, but it's a rough idea of a minimum performance number.

I was very surprised to find a lot traffic enforcement officers holding lidar guns and patrolling the HOV lanes on the sunshine list.

I think permanent HOV-2/HOT (toll) lanes might be a viable solution to Toronto's traffic congestion problem. Should we have three or five lanes of standstill traffic? or at least one lane that's always moving?
 
iFly55 said:
Lets not forget that most of the police officers patrolling the HOV lanes are paid close to 6 figure salaries. Lets say they're working 160hrs/mth... they'd need to give out at least five $85 HOV lane tickets per day just to pay for their salary.

Obviously with math/taxes it's more complex than this, but it's a rough idea of a minimum performance number.

I was very surprised to find a lot traffic enforcement officers holding lidar guns and patrolling the HOV lanes on the sunshine list.

I think permanent HOV-2/HOT (toll) lanes might be a viable solution to Toronto's traffic congestion problem. Should we have three or five lanes of standstill traffic? or at least one lane that's always moving?
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I say HOV-2 would definitely be a viable solution. Getting 2 other people isnt as easy but getting one other person should be a lot more straightforward.
We'll see how much of a difference the change will make at the end of the month. I say that the HOV lane on Gardiner will be PACKED with HOV-2
 
Go drive in LA, where congestion is horrendous and you wikl still see majority single occupant vehicles. I was also surprised at the lack of bikes on highways. Year round riding weather plus lane splitting, i was expecting a horde of bikes everywhere. Nope.

Its hard enough getting two people to ride share, three almost an impossibility. I had a co-worker live literally down the street for me and even then car pooling didnt happen as much as either one of us hoped.
 
hedo2002 said:
)

As for the car pooling, sure IF you happen to have someone who works at the same location and lives within 10 KM or you, (which means now ANY time saving of the HOV lane is erased as I have to drive 10 kms to get this worker).
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10kms is a LONG way. No one will pick someone up going that far out of the way. Car pools usually work by meeting the people at a location (like a car pool parking lot) or one of the car poolers driving to the location of the driver and leaving their car there. Thats how I've seen it work in other places. As mentioned yesterday, google is working on system to connect people together, and it may actually get traction.

A of success is to do with peoples acceptance of change etc. Mind you, I never thought I would see people move from their big V8 cars and trucks to smaller vehicles, but they have done that in the past 15yrs. Compacts and Sub Compact cars which would normally be seen in Europe are the norm now in Canada.

The GTA/Ontario is generally filled with Whiners and Wingers on one side, and lefty hippies on the other. lol ;-) (My opinion) You know the joke.. How do you know when you've landed at Pearson? Because when the Pilot turns off the engines, you can still hear the Whining. ;-p

In regards to the HOV lanes, there's no way they will implement them permanently after the PanAm games. We've touched on the reasons why many times.

I'm glad I put myself in a position that I can commute to work by GO Train and not have to drive/ride daily.
 
kiwi said:
10kms is a LONG way. No one will pick someone up going that far out of the way.
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In Toronto in definitely is. My entire commute is only 25 km so 10 is almost half that. That 25 km takes 30-60 minutes already in the afternoon and I travel just when rush hour is starting.
 
hedo2002 said:
)

The City of Toronto gets a portion of the GAS tax to help with road, and infrastructure, (Including the DVP, which IS indeed paid by ALL Ontario drivers not just those IN Toronto), so yes WE do pay for those lanes. Sure again GO train works GREAT as long as you work within walking distance of Union or the other stops along THAT corridor. That is like me telling you that you should catch the GO bus at say Yorkdale, take it to Union then get on the TTC to get back up to Bloor.

As for the car pooling, sure IF you happen to have someone who works at the same location and lives within 10 KM or you, (which means now ANY time saving of the HOV lane is erased as I have to drive 10 kms to get this worker).

I can predict with relative certainity, that IF they decided to keep these HOV lanes, that more and more people will simply revolt and use them. The police can't stop them all, (remember TPS has been given EXTRA money due to the games to patrol them). If you run the HOV lanes daily, your chance of being ticketed, after the games are gone will decrease dramtically. The HOV lanes will no longer be a faster route, and will at some point become abused to the point of extinction.

The HOV lanes only benefit a VERY VERY small set of commuters. But lets screw the majority for the sake of the few choosen ones... That is not my idea of a good proposal.

Again there is a reason MANY businesses will not locate to Toronto and if this remains I can see a LOT more leaving. But hey again YOUR commute is great enjoy it for now. IF these lanes do stay I also predict the city WILL make them pay for use, they can then use the increased revenue to have them patrolled heavily as it will be a revenue generation model. Would you support pay for use? Or is the benefit only acceptable if it inconvienences hundreds of thousands of others and is FREE?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure every municipality gets a portion of the gas tax, not just Toronto, and it's probably proportionate to the population rather than # of commuter they support (but I have no idea how that is divided). Though you might pay more than others since you have a longer commute and use more gas, so I guess you can feel you funded the roads you use on your commute.
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/gt/
Since 2004, a portion of the gasoline tax is given to municipalities for public transit.
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I understand your frustration with traffic, but you chose to live away from where you work for whatever reasons. Not saying that's a bad choice, I'm sure you weighed your options and chose what was important to you, but your choices made your commute a nightmare with or without the HOV lane. The point of HOV lanes and toll charges aren't to benefit the city for extra revenue, but it's to shape people's demands for the road. Look at the likes of London and Stockholm, they implemented congestion charges to cut down traffic, not to generate extra revenues. (I believe the traffic numbers went down 30% after congestion charges)

And if Toronto choose to keep the HOV or make that lane a toll road to control/shape traffic, then it's what you'll have to live with for living in the suburbs. You can continue driving and live with the longer commute, or take GO Train to Union and connect to wherever you need to go for work. Everywhere else around the world shares the same public transit philosophy. Regional trains brings you to a central hub and you connect out from there on the local subway/train/bus. Sure, our TTC and GO probably isn't the most reliable, nor is it the cheapest, but performance wise we are not too bad. Much like anywhere in the world even the ones with a really good transit system (such as London, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong kong, etc), if you are commuting 50km away from the city centre, it will take you over an hour to train in.
 
Ok so all of us that currently live outside of Toronto and commute finally decide, we are no longer willing to do so. Tell us please where are we to live? There is NO overstock of surplus housing.

You forgot ONE other major option. To ove my job to a location closer to where I live, which then means Toronto, becomes a ghost town, resembling inner city Detroit with every other building shuttered. Good choice for Toronto. I would have no issue if the gov't had constructed another lane to MAKE and HOV lane. But to reduce the 401 to a two lane road is at best silly and poor planning. Plus not to have adequate transit in place compounds the issue.

Not everyone can take a train to Union then connect to go to work. What if you work closer to the 401? Your now not supposed to take basically a direct route to work but instead commute to the city core then TRY to find adequate transit to the northern regions? Ludicrous, but typical cnetralist Toronto thinking.

This is just another example of why doing business IN Toronto is simply not a goid idea. I have no desire to locatemy business within the city.

They were discussing at length this morning how silly this entire fiaqsco is. First the gov't and PanAM have been for well over a month telling people to stay off the roads and consider leaving town, to help ease congestion. On Friday, the roads were lightly travelled not becasue people stayed home to work from home, but becasue they LEFT town. Then the organizers are complaining about slow ticket sales. Well guess what, if you tell people to stay at home or leave town you can't sell tickets to people doing what you told them.

I don't know of many people who can take 6 weeks off for this stupidity, (other than teachers). Personnaly, I haven't been taking the 401, No need to my commute is actually faster, and MUCH less dangerous to take artieral roads.

So make them toll lanes or keep them as HOV lanes but be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Just as an example I had to travel for a meeting from 407/404 area to Lawrence and DVP on Thursday statrting at 4:15 pm. It was 6:30 when I reached my destination, (Using the DVP HOV lane for the whole 1.6 km that it was available to me). That is 2 hours and 15 minutes to travel less than 20 KM total on a Motorcycle. It was just under 2 hours for the first 12 km of watching a few buses and aabout 15 Pan AM vehicles whiz by in the empty 404 HOV lane.

thephenom said:
Pretty sure every municipality gets a portion of the gas tax, not just Toronto, and it's probably proportionate to the population rather than # of commuter they support (but I have no idea how that is divided). Though you might pay more than others since you have a longer commute and use more gas, so I guess you can feel you funded the roads you use on your commute.

I understand your frustration with traffic, but you chose to live away from where you work for whatever reasons. Not saying that's a bad choice, I'm sure you weighed your options and chose what was important to you, but your choices made your commute a nightmare with or without the HOV lane. The point of HOV lanes and toll charges aren't to benefit the city for extra revenue, but it's to shape people's demands for the road. Look at the likes of London and Stockholm, they implemented congestion charges to cut down traffic, not to generate extra revenues. (I believe the traffic numbers went down 30% after congestion charges)

And if Toronto choose to keep the HOV or make that lane a toll road to control/shape traffic, then it's what you'll have to live with for living in the suburbs. You can continue driving and live with the longer commute, or take GO Train to Union and connect to wherever you need to go for work. Everywhere else around the world shares the same public transit philosophy. Regional trains brings you to a central hub and you connect out from there on the local subway/train/bus. Sure, our TTC and GO probably isn't the most reliable, nor is it the cheapest, but performance wise we are not too bad. Much like anywhere in the world even the ones with a really good transit system (such as London, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong kong, etc), if you are commuting 50km away from the city centre, it will take you over an hour to train in.
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Those 3 occupant HOV lanes are stupid... Yes, I can get down the DVP on the bike quicker, but the 401 sucks..... Also, driving my 2 seat roadster with 2 passengers (vehicle is full using all seat belts) I can't use the HOV? Sorry, but do I need to throw a dead hooker in the trunk or something?! Should be allowed to use ALL of the HOV lanes when all seat belts are used in a 2 seater or on a motorcycle.
 
Matthew.Tremayne said:
Those 3 occupant HOV lanes are stupid... Yes, I can get down the DVP on the bike quicker, but the 401 sucks..... Also, driving my 2 seat roadster with 2 passengers (vehicle is full using all seat belts) I can't use the HOV? Sorry, but do I need to throw a dead hooker in the trunk or something?! Should be allowed to use ALL of the HOV lanes when all seat belts are used in a 2 seater or on a motorcycle.
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"well mister officer... you havent opened the trunk yet, you cant give me a ticket...but i wouldnt advise on opening the trunk unless you have a warrant"
 
LePhillou said:
"well mister officer... you havent opened the trunk yet, you cant give me a ticket...but i wouldnt advise on opening the trunk unless you have a warrant"
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I want to see this interaction recorded, lol.
 
hedo2002 said:
You forgot ONE other major option. To ove my job to a location closer to where I live, which then means Toronto, becomes a ghost town, resembling inner city Detroit with every other building shuttered. Good choice for Toronto. I would have no issue if the gov't had constructed another lane to MAKE and HOV lane. But to reduce the 401 to a two lane road is at best silly and poor planning. Plus not to have adequate transit in place compounds the issue.

Not everyone can take a train to Union then connect to go to work. What if you work closer to the 401? Your now not supposed to take basically a direct route to work but instead commute to the city core then TRY to find adequate transit to the northern regions? Ludicrous, but typical cnetralist Toronto thinking.

This is just another example of why doing business IN Toronto is simply not a goid idea. I have no desire to locatemy business within the city.
Click to expand...
I think everyone should move closer to their jobs or look for jobs closer to them.

There are enough businesses who either need to be downtown or want to be downtown and who's employees live within an easy commute or transit ride. Toronto will not become Detroit and businesses will not be pulling up left right and centre to move to the burbs. The only businesses I see move out of the downtown are manufacturing which makes sense as it can be done cheaper on the edges of the city. Chances are their employees also live outside of the core.

Transit is sorely lacking and needs to be an Ontario wide issue. Spending money on roads won't get better transit built. I think that a system of fast rail for the entire golden horseshoe needs to come about as opposed to building more lanes. The more lanes you build they will always be full. Improving transit from outlying areas to several downtown hubs would be a smarter long term investment. The more commuters you get off the roads the better commercial vehicles can get the job done around the city. Ideally roads need to be for those who require vehicles to transport equipment or goods for work.

I don't feel bad for commuters stuck in traffic. I made a conscious decision when buying a house to stay within easy transit access. Sure my house is small for the price but that is the choice I made to not sit in a car for hours on a day. That time is priceless to me. Commuting long hours is just unhealthy.
 
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