redridernl
Well-known member
Because what the cop did was more difficult.
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Ride Like a Police Officer
- Thread starter C109Knight
- Start date
Because what the cop did was more difficult.
LOL hmmm well I imagine its not so bad for us as you men. Im not afraid of a little heat.
Good to know. Thank you!
Good luck!
Thanks.
I'd also like to add that I ride a Busa, and I think that most of the skills should be transferable to sport bikes as well. I'll post an overall review once I get back.
C109Knight
Well-known member
Best of luck. Remember to take leather jacket and a light jacket for slow speed. They would only let you take the test if u perform well. I can teach u a few basics if u want. Good decision though. Keep us updated.
Thanks for the offer. I might take you up on that if time permits. I'm excited; can't wait till the next weekend.
C109Knight
Well-known member
Try practising slow speed controls I.e. Friction zone. Also, the deciding factor for the test would be emergency braking at 30mph. If you reach 30mph during practice runs then only u would be allowed to take test. So practice that when ever u can. Friction zone practice can be done in stop and go traffic or parking lots. Pm me if u want to talk to me.
Okie ... Time for an update.. C109Knight was bang on for most part. This course is not easy but it's not intensely diffcult, if you're willing to listen to the instructors.
First up this was a phenomenal course, but you really won't get upto riding like some of those videos until you finish with the advanced level II program which is the 3rd phase in training.
I highly recommend this course, whether you're a supersport , cruiser or streetbike rider. While it's harder (not impossible) to translate the skills to a SS on the slow speed manouvers, it is absolutely transferable on the maximum controlled braking exercises.
I never found the maximum braking exercises at RTI as challenging as this. And I will agree with C109Knight, the riders training courses offered here are probably 5-10% of what you will go through there.
Doug did mention that out of the 45 or so MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) instructors that did the course, less than half passed.
Day 1 -
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The usual class room session with a questionnaire on some technical aspects to riding epecially on highsides, rear and front wheel lock situations, braking in a curve etc.
Since I was the only one riding a hayabusa or any other sportbike for that matter, I ended up being a bit of the punching bag for the group every now and then. It was not bad really, kinda fun if you take it in the right spirit. I did however defend my busa and sort of got to understand firsthand on why SS bikes, or crotch-rockets as they always refer to them, have such a bad name among the officers there.
Doug Wolfe (retired police motor officer, lead instructor and owns/runs the Midwest police motorcycle training) and Larry Schultz (lead instructor and currently the head of the Troy police motor unit) are both motorcycle crash investigators.
In their line of work, they get to see enough motorcycle and body parts strewn across the asphalt to NOT hold most SS riders in high regard.
Now to the guts of the exercises:
Forgot to add this earlier - The first exercise other than mounting and dismounting is teaching you how to pick up a 800 lb bike, after dropping it, from both sides.
1) Inline cone weave: 7 cones that we have to weave through. This is probably the only exercise that you can cheat on. i.e. get through without fully locking the handlebars and leaning the motorcycle.
2) Figure 8s in 18 ft diameter circles.
3) 90 degree left and right turns to stop box.
I had the hardest time with the figure 8's especially turning right. By the latter half of day two I was fine. And I also dropped the bike on one of the turns. It was the only time I dropped it.
On the topic of dropping the motorcycle; I had a brief chat with one of the instructors from New York, explaining how I had a hard time turning right and the first thing he asked me was how many times I dropped the motorcycle. I said once. He responded "Drop it about 10 times and then we'll talk". He then proceeded to advise that you need to lock and lean the bike as far as possible. Dropping it is all part of learning. One of the guys in the advanced level II dropped his motorcycle about 4-5 times in one session and that's just normal. Those exercises seems real tough though. I was told that it's the same techniques that they teach in level one but with a slight difference in application.
No problems at all with the 90 degree turns and stop box.
Day 2:
------
4)90 degree pull-outs to the left and right
This was a a bit of a pain but I managed ok by the end of a few practice runs. The right was a bit of a b**** as there was no rear brake to maintain torque on the pull-out. The control was all throttle and clutch for the first second and then the rear brake came into play.
5) 180 degree or U turn in 18 ft.
This again was not too hard. Had a few rough runs, but after a few it turned out ok. I was able to make it with a good foot to spare on either side at the end of practice on day 3.
6) Road speed exercises:
a) Rear wheel lock-ups
This was one of the key parts of the course and extremely invaluable in my opinion. This was a practical demo on high sides dynamics and how to avoid it before you enter the point of no return.
In short we had to lock the rear wheel at 15, 20 and 25 mph and bring it to a dead stop. This was the "p*** in my pants" part of the course. While I have locked the rear wheel a few times on the street, it was never intentional.
I had done it on a dirt bike, on dirt, when I was a lot younger and braver...or stupid if you want. Plus, on the dirt it seemed fun. But doing the exercise at 25 mph, on asphalt, was a bit scary.
All in all this was just to get a feel of what rear wheel lockups feel like and how to deal with it safely, without ending up in a highside.
b) Maximum controlled braking
Applying maximum controlled braking at speeds ranging starting from 15 mph up to 30 mph and coming to a dead stop within the specified distance. I'm not too sure, but my guess is that it was 42 ft at 30mph.
c) First execute exercise b) then downshift to 1st and then do a 90 degree left or right turn in 5 feet wide space.This is immediately followed by another 110 degree left or right (depending on which side you made the 90 degree turn on) after about 6-7 feet into the 90 degree turn.
While this was a bit difficult in itself, the twist was adding a mirror check to see if any vehicles were coming on either side. They simulated this by waving a flag in your left or right, behind you, and had you make a turn in the opposite direction after seeing them in your mirrors. I found this to be the hardest part of the whole exercise.
Day 3:
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d) They then proceeded to add countersteering into the mix and had us do d), b) and c) in succession.
To make it fun, it pretty much rained all day and the exercises were dropped to 25 mph after the water puddles cleared up. The asphalt was still wet. After the first run, I realized that I greatly preferred 30 mph in the dry over 25mph in the wet. While braking was successful, I struggled to make the 90 lefts and rights after downshifting. The rain might have been a bit of a mental block or it was just an off day. I'll never know I guess.
Day 4:
------
Pretty much practicing everything we learnt in different sessions. Everything was coming together real sweet for me now. However, I had a great run on the road speed excersise in one session and really goofed up during another session.
I was nailing 5 out of 5 in one run, and right after a break I ended up getting 3 out of 5 in the next session. In Dougs words I had a "Brain F@rt" for no apparent reason, since I had 2 pretty good runs before that.
I ended up going straight through the cones a couple of times. One time I ended up coming in too hot at about 33-34 mph and f***** that up.
All in all it worked out well for me. The test was in the afternoon, after a few more slow speed and road speed practice runs.
Ended up nailing all the slow speed exercises, but got 3 out of 4 runs on the roadspeed.
Messed up one run going way too fast about 33 at the start of the run and 34 mph at the beginning of the brake chute. I managed to stop in time but failed to make the turn. Would have ended up mastering the course with the exception of the one road speed mistake.
I wouldn't recommend trying out the high speed exercises at 30 mph/50 kmph on your own before going there, or some similar course, unless you're really adept at braking already. Better to have the instructors watching and correcting any mistakes, rather than learning the hard way in a parking lot or elsewhere.
All in all, C109Knight was right in his assessment. These guys don't goof around. It's a no BS course.They do their best to get you up to speed working with you one on one if needed. But if they think you you're not fit to be on a motorcycle they will not hold back and politely tell you that you should not be riding. This has nothing to do with passing or not passing the course.
If they don't think that you cut it for the road speed or the test, you will not be making it to that level.
The main reason being concern for your safety. If you cannot hit 30 mph ( with +/- 2 mph tolerance) at least 50% of the time, they will not let you take the road test. During the test they don't want anyone trying to prove, and consequently injure themselves, that they can hit 30 mph without getting the feel for that speed in practice runs.
One of the guys in my group was there last year. He had a bad fall after locking up the front wheel in the road speed at 30 mph, and consequently shattered his upper fibula. It's a rare occurrence to lock the front and have the injuries he had at the speeds we were doing, so I recommend getting a good set of knee protectors if you can. He was in crutches for two months and had pins and steel plate in his leg. He managed to pass it this year. I must say that I admire the b*lls for coming back and completing the course.
Out of 6 people in the group, one had to drop out after 2 days, as he couldn't do the inline cone weave exercise after working on the lock and lean for a day and a half.
Another one was not allowed to take the test due to inability on getting up to the 30 mph road speed consistently.
4 of us passed and I was the only Canuck there.
It felt quite weird getting back on my busa after the 4 days of riding a Road King. I knew what you could do with those machines, but I do have a new appreciation for those motorcycles after experiencing them first hand.
I've tried to get into detail as much as I can, but let me know if you need any additional info.
A special thanks to C109Knight for posting this course and experience here. I would recommend this course to anyone without any reservations.
First up this was a phenomenal course, but you really won't get upto riding like some of those videos until you finish with the advanced level II program which is the 3rd phase in training.
I highly recommend this course, whether you're a supersport , cruiser or streetbike rider. While it's harder (not impossible) to translate the skills to a SS on the slow speed manouvers, it is absolutely transferable on the maximum controlled braking exercises.
I never found the maximum braking exercises at RTI as challenging as this. And I will agree with C109Knight, the riders training courses offered here are probably 5-10% of what you will go through there.
Doug did mention that out of the 45 or so MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) instructors that did the course, less than half passed.
Day 1 -
-------
The usual class room session with a questionnaire on some technical aspects to riding epecially on highsides, rear and front wheel lock situations, braking in a curve etc.
Since I was the only one riding a hayabusa or any other sportbike for that matter, I ended up being a bit of the punching bag for the group every now and then. It was not bad really, kinda fun if you take it in the right spirit. I did however defend my busa and sort of got to understand firsthand on why SS bikes, or crotch-rockets as they always refer to them, have such a bad name among the officers there.
Doug Wolfe (retired police motor officer, lead instructor and owns/runs the Midwest police motorcycle training) and Larry Schultz (lead instructor and currently the head of the Troy police motor unit) are both motorcycle crash investigators.
In their line of work, they get to see enough motorcycle and body parts strewn across the asphalt to NOT hold most SS riders in high regard.
Now to the guts of the exercises:
Forgot to add this earlier - The first exercise other than mounting and dismounting is teaching you how to pick up a 800 lb bike, after dropping it, from both sides.
1) Inline cone weave: 7 cones that we have to weave through. This is probably the only exercise that you can cheat on. i.e. get through without fully locking the handlebars and leaning the motorcycle.
2) Figure 8s in 18 ft diameter circles.
3) 90 degree left and right turns to stop box.
I had the hardest time with the figure 8's especially turning right. By the latter half of day two I was fine. And I also dropped the bike on one of the turns. It was the only time I dropped it.
On the topic of dropping the motorcycle; I had a brief chat with one of the instructors from New York, explaining how I had a hard time turning right and the first thing he asked me was how many times I dropped the motorcycle. I said once. He responded "Drop it about 10 times and then we'll talk". He then proceeded to advise that you need to lock and lean the bike as far as possible. Dropping it is all part of learning. One of the guys in the advanced level II dropped his motorcycle about 4-5 times in one session and that's just normal. Those exercises seems real tough though. I was told that it's the same techniques that they teach in level one but with a slight difference in application.
No problems at all with the 90 degree turns and stop box.
Day 2:
------
4)90 degree pull-outs to the left and right
This was a a bit of a pain but I managed ok by the end of a few practice runs. The right was a bit of a b**** as there was no rear brake to maintain torque on the pull-out. The control was all throttle and clutch for the first second and then the rear brake came into play.
5) 180 degree or U turn in 18 ft.
This again was not too hard. Had a few rough runs, but after a few it turned out ok. I was able to make it with a good foot to spare on either side at the end of practice on day 3.
6) Road speed exercises:
a) Rear wheel lock-ups
This was one of the key parts of the course and extremely invaluable in my opinion. This was a practical demo on high sides dynamics and how to avoid it before you enter the point of no return.
In short we had to lock the rear wheel at 15, 20 and 25 mph and bring it to a dead stop. This was the "p*** in my pants" part of the course. While I have locked the rear wheel a few times on the street, it was never intentional.
I had done it on a dirt bike, on dirt, when I was a lot younger and braver...or stupid if you want. Plus, on the dirt it seemed fun. But doing the exercise at 25 mph, on asphalt, was a bit scary.
All in all this was just to get a feel of what rear wheel lockups feel like and how to deal with it safely, without ending up in a highside.
b) Maximum controlled braking
Applying maximum controlled braking at speeds ranging starting from 15 mph up to 30 mph and coming to a dead stop within the specified distance. I'm not too sure, but my guess is that it was 42 ft at 30mph.
c) First execute exercise b) then downshift to 1st and then do a 90 degree left or right turn in 5 feet wide space.This is immediately followed by another 110 degree left or right (depending on which side you made the 90 degree turn on) after about 6-7 feet into the 90 degree turn.
While this was a bit difficult in itself, the twist was adding a mirror check to see if any vehicles were coming on either side. They simulated this by waving a flag in your left or right, behind you, and had you make a turn in the opposite direction after seeing them in your mirrors. I found this to be the hardest part of the whole exercise.
Day 3:
------
d) They then proceeded to add countersteering into the mix and had us do d), b) and c) in succession.
To make it fun, it pretty much rained all day and the exercises were dropped to 25 mph after the water puddles cleared up. The asphalt was still wet. After the first run, I realized that I greatly preferred 30 mph in the dry over 25mph in the wet. While braking was successful, I struggled to make the 90 lefts and rights after downshifting. The rain might have been a bit of a mental block or it was just an off day. I'll never know I guess.
Day 4:
------
Pretty much practicing everything we learnt in different sessions. Everything was coming together real sweet for me now. However, I had a great run on the road speed excersise in one session and really goofed up during another session.
I was nailing 5 out of 5 in one run, and right after a break I ended up getting 3 out of 5 in the next session. In Dougs words I had a "Brain F@rt" for no apparent reason, since I had 2 pretty good runs before that.
I ended up going straight through the cones a couple of times. One time I ended up coming in too hot at about 33-34 mph and f***** that up.
All in all it worked out well for me. The test was in the afternoon, after a few more slow speed and road speed practice runs.
Ended up nailing all the slow speed exercises, but got 3 out of 4 runs on the roadspeed.
Messed up one run going way too fast about 33 at the start of the run and 34 mph at the beginning of the brake chute. I managed to stop in time but failed to make the turn. Would have ended up mastering the course with the exception of the one road speed mistake.
I wouldn't recommend trying out the high speed exercises at 30 mph/50 kmph on your own before going there, or some similar course, unless you're really adept at braking already. Better to have the instructors watching and correcting any mistakes, rather than learning the hard way in a parking lot or elsewhere.
All in all, C109Knight was right in his assessment. These guys don't goof around. It's a no BS course.They do their best to get you up to speed working with you one on one if needed. But if they think you you're not fit to be on a motorcycle they will not hold back and politely tell you that you should not be riding. This has nothing to do with passing or not passing the course.
If they don't think that you cut it for the road speed or the test, you will not be making it to that level.
The main reason being concern for your safety. If you cannot hit 30 mph ( with +/- 2 mph tolerance) at least 50% of the time, they will not let you take the road test. During the test they don't want anyone trying to prove, and consequently injure themselves, that they can hit 30 mph without getting the feel for that speed in practice runs.
One of the guys in my group was there last year. He had a bad fall after locking up the front wheel in the road speed at 30 mph, and consequently shattered his upper fibula. It's a rare occurrence to lock the front and have the injuries he had at the speeds we were doing, so I recommend getting a good set of knee protectors if you can. He was in crutches for two months and had pins and steel plate in his leg. He managed to pass it this year. I must say that I admire the b*lls for coming back and completing the course.
Out of 6 people in the group, one had to drop out after 2 days, as he couldn't do the inline cone weave exercise after working on the lock and lean for a day and a half.
Another one was not allowed to take the test due to inability on getting up to the 30 mph road speed consistently.
4 of us passed and I was the only Canuck there.
It felt quite weird getting back on my busa after the 4 days of riding a Road King. I knew what you could do with those machines, but I do have a new appreciation for those motorcycles after experiencing them first hand.
I've tried to get into detail as much as I can, but let me know if you need any additional info.
A special thanks to C109Knight for posting this course and experience here. I would recommend this course to anyone without any reservations.
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C109Knight
Well-known member
Congratulations Kirerider....I was positive about you passing the course, personally, I am of the opinion that Canadians are better riders. In our session there were 7 riders, one dropped out the second day as he was having lots of issues with all the exercises. Out of remaining 6 only 2 of us were allowed and unfortunately, the second rider could not clear slow speed tests to go the roadspeed. I did all the exercises 4 times and was lucky enough to get all of them correct thus mastering the test. I had planned to take the Level II with you but had to cancel my trip due to some work here. I will be surely taking the level II and Advance course next year. There was a Air Force guy with us...he is 6'4" tall and well built....He was very high headed and came with a very big attitude....he was ridiculing everybody but had problems in all the exercises.....He even called Doug a A....E....They did not allow him to take the test as he did not reach upto 30 mph....He was very angry and left swearing....he came back after 10 minutes driving very fast...came out of his car and walked towards all of us....everybody thought he is going to try something foolish...but he just took his coffee mug and left...
If you plan on taking the level II next year let me know, we may go together...I had asked Doug to plan a class here in Toronto itself. Was Jerry there as one of the instructors? Hey if you want to practice sometime, I live in Etobicoke and there is a good parking lot opposite to the woodbine mall.
Again, Congratulation on completing the course. I know how it feels to Complete the course.
If you plan on taking the level II next year let me know, we may go together...I had asked Doug to plan a class here in Toronto itself. Was Jerry there as one of the instructors? Hey if you want to practice sometime, I live in Etobicoke and there is a good parking lot opposite to the woodbine mall.
Again, Congratulation on completing the course. I know how it feels to Complete the course.
The drive is about 4-4.5 hrs from the east end and 3-3.5 hrs from the west end. I left Friday evening after work from downtown TO and got there by 8 pm. I had to deal with crappy rush hour traffic and took me about 5.5 hrs to get there. I'll be doing the advanced level I and II next year since they're not offering any more courses this year. If Lunatic and Cat13 are doing it in spring so you might want to ask them if you could join. I'll probably be doing it with C109Knight next year and you are more than welcome to join us. It should be a fun trip, however the advanced level one is 5 days vs. 4 days for the primary course; which means that you will need to spend an extra day till we finish, if you want to to ride back home with us.
I don't know about the other schools around the GTA but RTI does have a 1 day technical skills course that covers some of the skills that have been discussed in this thread, they don't supply the bike and it's not as in depth (being that it's only one day) but it's significantly cheaper and local. I took it this summer, it improved my slow speed handling.
Thanks!! I'll keep you posted on when I can make it next year and we can make plans then. Etobicoke is a bit out of the way for me since I live in Markham. I can probably make it if I have a weekend free.
You'll enjoy it for sure. I'll be making it there for the advance level I, and probably II as well if I can squeeze it in. Let me know when you plan on making it there.
I just remembered; Gerry, tall and lanky, was the NY instructor that told me I needed to drop the motorcycle a few more times; might be the same person I guess. He and another instructor who was an ex Suffolk county motorcop (in Long Island NY) were conducting the Advanced level II training over the weekend with one of the guys who was there for the advanced level II.
C109Knight
Well-known member
I think the same person. How intense was the advance level. I think they were conducting an advance level with you guys.
There was one guy there for the advance level 2. The exercises seemed tough. The keyholes were just under 18ft I think, and quite a bit of the slow speed exercises required leaning the motorcycle almost to the point of scraping the floor boards on either side. He was doing pretty good but lost count of how many times he dropped the motorcycle on some of the tight turns. Hell, I saw the instructors drop the motorcycles twice trying to make better times on some of the runs during practice.
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