Oh, and I use four fingers. I wouldn't want to pinch a couple of fingers under the lever, and lose out on some braking potential, after the weight has shifted forward. Those with shorty levers can do it different.
Rear end slides (sideways) under hard breaking
- Thread starter EvilBeaver
- Start date
Properly bled and adjusted brakes will sort that for you
This is seriously bad advice. By using the front brake most of the time, you get in the habit of using the front brake, and you don't have to do something "special" when the need arises. If you are in the habit of using only the rear brake, then when that car pulls across your path, you will do what you have conditioned yourself to do ... jam on the rear brake.
The time when I had a car turn across my path that I knew I was going to hit ... I hit the car with the front wheel locked (no ABS), the rear wheel in the air (rear brake would have been useless and simply a distraction), and in the process of low-siding. I'm still here. I got it slowed down from 60 km/h to maybe 20 or 30 at the time of impact, and my only injury was a sore wrist. The bike was hurt a lot more ... but it was within range of being fixed up, which I did. Situation wouldn't have been so good if I had jammed on the rear brake out of habit.
I've had bikes where the brake lever comes back to the bar but the right course of action is to fix your brakes so that it doesn't do that. I use two fingers on the brake lever, that's all that is needed on anything I own. If the lever can come back far enough to pinch fingers, something needs fixing.
My first race bike was a Kawasaki EX500, single front disk with calipers and master cylinder that aren't very good. There were times when the RZ350 and FZR400 riders were braking at marker 3 before the corner, and I was braking at marker 5 and pulling the lever all the way back to the bar with all four fingers and taking whatever braking I could get. Don't have that bike any more.
See how you feel about that after the accident that you'd have avoided had you braked properly.
Bob, I was reminded of this video someone posted a while back. This is a great example of what's going to happen to you someday when you're caught off guard but are into the habit of using solely the rear brake.
[video=youtube;fXj9ME_DkKM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXj9ME_DkKM[/video]
[video=youtube;fXj9ME_DkKM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXj9ME_DkKM[/video]
bobjohnson
Well-known member
Again, its not a habit like I forget I have front brakes or something. I use my front brake when I have to, but when I am cruising along I leave enough room to stop with my back brake only. When I need to stop quickly, I use my front brake.
If I didnt use my front brake ever I would have done exactly what happens in that video at least once a day when going through intersections where the light changes or someone turns left in front of me or whatever. If you think I never had any need to stop suddenly in 25 years then... I dunno what city or planet you ride on but I would rather be there I guess.
Found some video of someone who took the advice to only use your front brake:
[video=youtube;h_gGNzIYEhg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_gGNzIYEhg[/video]
If I didnt use my front brake ever I would have done exactly what happens in that video at least once a day when going through intersections where the light changes or someone turns left in front of me or whatever. If you think I never had any need to stop suddenly in 25 years then... I dunno what city or planet you ride on but I would rather be there I guess.
Found some video of someone who took the advice to only use your front brake:
[video=youtube;h_gGNzIYEhg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_gGNzIYEhg[/video]
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yeah I gotta say Bob's advice is probably the worst bit of wisdom I've hear about riding motorcycles
Maybe he was exaggerating or his percentages were off.. otherwise he's the most cautious rider in the world and never puts himself in a situation where he has to brake hard at all. But **** happens, and on that day, you wanna be damned confident in your skills to stop the bike as fast as physically possible.
I've gone positively sideways on the edge of 100% braking front and rear to avoid T-bone collisions with morons who make late left turns or driveway exits.. the last time it happened, some couple stopped and their jaws were to the floor at how I managed not to wreck my bike. Playing with the rear brake all those years also builds confidence in what happens when the back end gets light and loose. Dirt guys know all about it.
Maybe he was exaggerating or his percentages were off.. otherwise he's the most cautious rider in the world and never puts himself in a situation where he has to brake hard at all. But **** happens, and on that day, you wanna be damned confident in your skills to stop the bike as fast as physically possible.
I've gone positively sideways on the edge of 100% braking front and rear to avoid T-bone collisions with morons who make late left turns or driveway exits.. the last time it happened, some couple stopped and their jaws were to the floor at how I managed not to wreck my bike. Playing with the rear brake all those years also builds confidence in what happens when the back end gets light and loose. Dirt guys know all about it.
No, you found a video of someone who hit gravel in a corner...and had he been using only his rear brake chances are we'd be watching a video of a highside which hurts way more.
That was just bad luck, little to do with choice of brake at that point - you hit crap on the road in sufficient quantity to knock your tires out of traction while in a tight and fast corner there's a good chance you're going for a slide no matter what - NO brakes would be the best bet at that point if you see it in time.
@bobjohnson The full STUNT cage on that guys STREET bike suggest squid level 1000; and his cornering technique suggest a much much lower skill level.
I didn't see any gravel there, but I did see was rider error brought on by a blind corner tightening, which caught him off guard. Now if his default was to go to the rear, his error may have locked it and caused a slide head on into the guy coming the other way.
I didn't see any gravel there, but I did see was rider error brought on by a blind corner tightening, which caught him off guard. Now if his default was to go to the rear, his error may have locked it and caused a slide head on into the guy coming the other way.
bobjohnson
Well-known member
My point being there are examples of people ****ing up using front brake, just as there are videos of people ****ing up using back brake. As long as both wheels are touching the road who cares how you get it done?
If you're not worried I'm not worried; your skin....
... but sorry, it IS terrible advice, and honestly not defensible in any way. Try and find a safe riding article/publication that supports 95% rear braking...
yodude
Banned
Originally Posted by PrivatePilot
This! "Only 30% of braking effort from the rear wheel", some say, so why bother.
Sure...but using both together gives you 30% more braking! Use both together..practice until it's second nature, then in a panic situation it won't be something you'll have to think of, so instead of crashing while only using 70% of your bikes stopping ability (front brakes only) you may avoid the crash by using all 100% of it.
+1
even better by private pilot
meanwhile
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2010/09/10/kevin-schwantz-s-expert-eye-on-braking/153912
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Schwantz
The late 1980s and early 1990s are remembered as one of the most competitive eras of Grand Prix racing with a field rich in talent that included Rainey, Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan, Eddie Lawson and Randy Mamola.[SUP][5][/SUP] He was often at a disadvantage in that his Suzukis never seemed to be as fast as those of his Yamaha and Honda mounted rivals.
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The video description itself directly on YouTube attributed it to gravel, and it makes sense - he goes down right at intersection of what appears to be a gravel driveway or road. He certainly didn't appear to be into the brakes anywhere near hard enough to lock the front IMHO nor did he appear to hang a peg into the ashphalt or anything.
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Just because Schwantz didn't use a rear brake doesnt mean he didn't know how.
I can link you to articles about MOTOGP teams spending big money developing new rear brake tech including hand actuated ones for their riders to use...
There's NO argument. The brake allows for direct control over the rear wheel and suspension. If you don't know how to use it you're lacking a vital skill. Period.
I can link you to articles about MOTOGP teams spending big money developing new rear brake tech including hand actuated ones for their riders to use...
There's NO argument. The brake allows for direct control over the rear wheel and suspension. If you don't know how to use it you're lacking a vital skill. Period.
It was an excuse, remember street riders never make mistakes, it's always gravel or someone else.
There was no gravel, he was "leaning" saw the other bike coming, got spooked, grabbed a hand of front brake and low sided.
Using the rear alone would not have helped him either, the bike either wouldn't have stopped and now he is target fixated on the other bike or he would have lost the rear on a slide.
His only course of action was to lean more and that instinct unfortunately is not practised on the street
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Hand brake is used to stop the bike from wheeling out of a corner, has nothing to do with slowing the bike
Because physics is working for you by using the front brake, and against you by using the rear brake.
Did you ever learn about the "traction circle"? The tire can apply force in any direction - acceleration, braking, or cornering - up to a "circle" which represents the amount of grip available. Using the front brake, your front traction circle is bigger and you are using some of it by braking, your rear traction circle is smaller because of forward weight transfer. Both ends have some reduction in available cornering traction but it is more-or-less balanced. You can brake quite hard while leaned over using the front brake ... as long as you are smooth and as long as you don't exceed that traction circle.
With rear brake usage, the front traction circle is still getting bigger but you are not using it, and the rear traction circle is getting smaller and you will very quickly reach its limit. This is not optimum use of available traction ...
Certainly you can crash by using the front brake incorrectly. But it will happen at a much higher total braking level than what would happen by using the rear brake alone. (And it will generally be a low-side rather than having a significant chance of being a high-side. Having been on both sides, I'll take the low-side! My high-side must have been painful, because I don't remember much of it ...)
In the video above, the rider who fell has all sorts of wrong happening. Don't blame front brake usage there; blame general incompetence. The oncoming rider was stunningly lucky.
I know of someone who launched a bike off the Cherohala Skyway because of a stunt cage.
