RAV4 or Forester

[unL33T]

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But most awds are disengaged, and many are reactive. The latest haldex system does a very good job at keeping the system proactive when it knows it's in snow, but it can be surprised by a patch of snow. I really hate going in a corner and not knowing what exactly the car will decide to do. A friend's speed 6 for example was like that. It was noticeable it went in a few corners as a FWD then the rear kicked in. He was also pretty disappointed coming from a subbie. A subbie or a torsen audi or VW will always be predictable. This probably doesn't matter for most, but I really enjoy sprinted driving on mountain roads covered with snow.

I actually find the Subbie viscous center diff to be a bit unpredictable. My Mitsubishi has the same system. In both the Outlander, and my WRX, when I get on the gas in a corner it understeers like a FWD until the speed differential between the front and back get high enough and then the rears kick in and it starts to oversteer. It's fine once you get used to it and you can control your slides but if you're not expecting it, it can lead to bit of an unexpected spin. Only noticeable on snow or really wet roads, though.

Also, I did manage to get my WRX stuck in the snow (front end ended up on top of about 1.5 ft of snow) although it was my first major snowfall with their AWD and I didn't turn off the traction control. I'm told if I did that I might have been able to get out. The Outlander has no electronics (traction control, ABS, etc) so don't need to worry about turning that stuff off.

 

[daught]

NOOOO, you can't admit a subbie LSD is in any way slower to react than a torsen. Personally I never believed they are like a torsen, but to avoid arguments I just went along with it. Not saying the torsen is better at everything, but in snow it's dumb always on diff does a great job.

kwtoxman the supercar haldex is a completly different system . The regular cars haldex I am talking about is always in transversal engine cars. Unless it sees the future it can't predict traction requirements in every condition. Then again they were able to cheat the EPA tests so their driving detection algorithms must be really good

 

[kwtoxman]

The Gen 4 and newer haldex units are not only reactive, but proactive as well. The electronics can pre-tension the clutch and activate all wheel drive before a wheel slip occurs. It also make use of various sensor inputs such as throttle, gear, steering and yaw angle, etc. The new tech works very well. Try it.

As for supercars haldex, yes, there are differences specifically for those two supercars, but it is the same general design and similar parts.

Yay for good algorithms

 

[unL33T]

Not at all interested in a BMW -- because of their higher purchase prices and higher maintenance costs. No thanks.

Makes sense. I've been considering trading my Outlander for the X5 only because I could put one of those hitch mounted motorcycle carriers on it as you can get hitches for the X5 with a 600 lb tongue weight rating vs 200 lb for my Outlander. And my Outlander's a bit slow. But the maintenance, premium fuel, and lower fuel economy are scaring me away. Too bad there aren't more AWD, manual options with higher tow ratings.

 

[daught]

The X5 has optional MT in NA?

 

[unL33T]

The X5 has optional MT in NA?

Older ones do. Don't think the new ones do. I found a 2004 manual for sale.

Honda Element is another one I recently found out was sold in AWD manual here.

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