RAV4 or Forester

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fastar1 said:
What makes a "true" AWD? AFAIK AWD is just any 4WD system that never needs to be disengaged for high grip surfaces.
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But most awds are disengaged, and many are reactive. The latest haldex system does a very good job at keeping the system proactive when it knows it's in snow, but it can be surprised by a patch of snow. I really hate going in a corner and not knowing what exactly the car will decide to do. A friend's speed 6 for example was like that. It was noticeable it went in a few corners as a FWD then the rear kicked in. He was also pretty disappointed coming from a subbie. A subbie or a torsen audi or VW will always be predictable. This probably doesn't matter for most, but I really enjoy sprinted driving on mountain roads covered with snow.
 
Hardwrkr13 said:
What I find about every Toyota is that the styling looks dated after 2yrs and they're so boring to drive (souless). I test drove everythin sans the Subi (scared off due to maintenance and extra fuel) and went with a Mazda. 185,000km so far and it's only required one sensor replacement ($400) and one set of rotor/pads at all four corners and a swaybar link ($50). Still looks brand new, doesn't have a spec of rust, and styling still looks current and it's fun to drive. Love this vehicle.

I've even ran it around Shannonville at their car lapping days for fun.
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Saw a lot of Mazdas and Mazda dealerships in Quebec last week. Another dark dirty Mazda sans hubcaps (assuming winter wheels) around every corner. Coincidently I was driving Mazda as well. No troubles. Mazda brand is a viable option.
 
daught said:
But most awds are disengaged, and many are reactive. The latest haldex system does a very good job at keeping the system proactive when it knows it's in snow, but it can be surprised by a patch of snow. I really hate going in a corner and not knowing what exactly the car will decide to do. A friend's speed 6 for example was like that. It was noticeable it went in a few corners as a FWD then the rear kicked in. He was also pretty disappointed coming from a subbie. A subbie or a torsen audi or VW will always be predictable. This probably doesn't matter for most, but I really enjoy sprinted driving on mountain roads covered with snow.
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My wifes santa fe spins the front tires for a revolution or two before the back tires kick in. It is far from graceful. I would much prefer all of the tires working (or at least have a button to pick which tires got power).
 
Welp, I've broadened my search, and narrowed it again...

I've dropped the Forester from contention -- sure I may not get one that burns oil, but then again, I might, and I don't have time to deal with 'oil consumption tests' and that non-sense. I like the Subaru's AWD, but I don't need it. I rarely venture outside the GTA during the winter, and here we get bugger-all snow so AWD is not high on my priority list. No matter what I get, snow tires will be going on, so front wheel drive only is fine.

On my list to test drive now are:
RAV4 -- already test drove, like it.
CRV -- hopefully look at tomorrow.
CX-5 -- reviews well, best towing capacity of the cars I'm considering -- did they solve the infamous Mazda rusting issue?
Rogue -- not high on the list as towing capacity is rated very low (1000lbs) and it seemed small in the back, however I will test drive it tomorrow.

The CRV and the Rogue are both CVTs. How has your experience been with a CVT? One guy above posted the Rogue was under-powered with it. I guess I will find that out tomorrow. I am hesitant about getting a car with a CVT as I have no experience with it and it is relatively new technology, right?

If I avoid CVT, I would knock the CRV and the Rogue from the list leaving me with the RAV4 and the CX-5...
 
I haven't heard anyone complaining about H4 engines consuming oil (at least not more than any other car). And I do a LOT of oil changes. I think Forester is a bit more of a small SUV and RAV4 a bit more of a small minivan. I like those couple of inches of extra clearance. I think the Subaru has best visibility (something that manufacturers weirdly ignore), and most cargo space in its class.
AWD is friggin great. No matter where you are. Not just for snow. Accelerating in wet.

Mazda - just pray it won't start rusting after 3-4 years. Seriously, I hope they have resolved their body rust issues because of all the cars that I work on, Mazda is the worst when it comes to that.

My personal top 4 choices would be:

1. Forester
2. CR-V
3. RAV4
4. CX-5

... then the rest. Hyundai, I still don't trust. The smell of the Pony is just around a corner. Also styling - Maybe, in 10 years when they stop making origami looking cars.
 
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As far as oil consumption goes... I don't work in a shop so don't have direct experience, but Consumer Reports put out this article indicating that once as many as 8% of Foresters consumed excessive oil but that is now down to 2%. However, according to the article:
Subaru considers a quart burned every 1,000 to 1,200 miles to be acceptable.
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I don't consider that acceptable at all.

I've also read a tonne of complaint pages, forum postings, etc, of the 2.5 Subaru engine burning oil... of course, people only post when there are issues so it is not statistically representative, however I don't want to be one of those 2%ers that Subaru will try to tell me that adding 5l of oil between changes is normal. I'd rather play it safe and just get a brand with very few reports of burning oil... not one with a class-action lawsuit for that very reason.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

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Yeah, I've read that article Mike. I do see your point. However, 2% (and on CR), is not something I'd lose sleep over. Especially considering that the next car on the list may be 1.7% (out of sample pool of 20 people).
I have yet to meet anyone with this particular vehicle that has the issue.
As cars age, they all start burning oil anyhow. It's generally not a big deal. Unless we're talking about huge consumption.
 
Motorcycle Mike said:
The CRV and the Rogue are both CVTs. .
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The CR-V engine and tranny is directly lifted from the Accord. It is a very sweet powertrain combo. Read every CVT Accord review around and you will find its arguably the best CVT experience on the market right now.


I've never heard good things about the Nissan CVT's.
 
If you're looking for towing capacity and more power than I admit that the Rogue does feel underpowered with the 2.5 motor in it for the weight of the car. For my parents it's alright, I enjoy it but I think there's some definitely good options out there.

When I drove the CRV I felt it was horrid inside and the seats were junk. RAV4 didn't do it for me, but the Rogue had the best seats and was the quietest of the 3 when we drove it.

How about a Volvo? I'm sure they make something comparable and within your range?

Personally....I wish we had more wagon options instead of the small CUV category :( Love the wagons.
 
X3 or X5

And FWD SUVs are pointless, IMO. Just get a car.
 
unL33T said:
X3 or X5

And FWD SUVs are pointless, IMO. Just get a car.
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Not at all interested in a BMW -- because of their higher purchase prices and higher maintenance costs. No thanks.

A FWD SUV is not pointless to me... the key is the space. With the back seats down there is tonnes of room for stuff -- like when we go camping or if we need to bring something large home from the store.

I pretty much finished my entire basement and built a shed using my matrix -- it can carry about 10 to 15 8' 2x4s with the hatch closed.
 
Motorcycle Mike said:
Not at all interested in a BMW -- because of their higher purchase prices and higher maintenance costs. No thanks.

A FWD SUV is not pointless to me... the key is the space. With the back seats down there is tonnes of room for stuff -- like when we go camping or if we need to bring something large home from the store.

I pretty much finished my entire basement and built a shed using my matrix -- it can carry about 10 to 15 8' 2x4s with the hatch closed.
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I know there's lots of VW hate these days........ but ->

My dad bought a 4Motion Tiguan two years ago for about 28K. It's actually really nice to drive... AWD, 200HP and gets pretty nice fuel mileage.

Has a fair amount of space, and good towing capacity... 2200Lbs. The 2.0TSI engine is quite solid. As a side note, my dad was hauling an 800 pound Harley and an ATV with no issues.... You could barely feel it going up hills. Unlike the CRV and RAV4.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/tiguan


Anywhoo, doesn't hurt to take a look.
 
Chasem said:
My dad bought a 4Motion Tiguan two years ago for about 28K. It's actually really nice to drive... AWD, 200HP and gets pretty nice fuel mileage.
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Needs premium fuel according to vw.ca, so no thanks.
 
Motorcycle Mike said:
Not at all interested in a BMW -- because of their higher purchase prices and higher maintenance costs. No thanks.

A FWD SUV is not pointless to me... the key is the space. With the back seats down there is tonnes of room for stuff -- like when we go camping or if we need to bring something large home from the store.

I pretty much finished my entire basement and built a shed using my matrix -- it can carry about 10 to 15 8' 2x4s with the hatch closed.
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If you want space get a minivan, or a proper van. Matrix is a hatchback.
 
unL33T said:
About the Subaru's maintenance... on my WRX there was a $1400 scheduled maintenance. I was told this is mostly because it includes changing the spark plugs and the engine has to be removed from the car to access them. Pretty ridiculous IMO. A clutch job on my 944, which is known as being one of the worst jobs you can do on a car, cost me almost the same.
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Thats a lie I do mine in 30min. Whoever quoted you that shouldn't be working on subarus.
 
unL33T said:
If you want space get a minivan, or a proper van. Matrix is a hatchback.
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I do agree with this. I miss my Grand caravan. I could fit anything in that mofo. Now hitting Costco in the Pilot is a bit of a pain.

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away using Tapatalk
 
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