Ramping difficulties | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Ramping difficulties

Well apparently sid_for_speed might benefit from the experience, along with anybody else that doesn't know that the more you ride the front wheel the more the bike will respond to your turn inputs and the more you ride the rear wheel the slower it will turn in.
I'd bet he is just weighting the bars too much. Its a sport bike. He's not mounting it like a dirtbike. You have little forward or rear motion on a sportbike.
@sid_for_speed , use your core to support your weight, keep the weight off your wrists.

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I was teaching RACE schools and busting tires likely before you were riding a bicycle.
Everything in the moto world doesn't revolve around riding trials, get used to other people having useful opinions.
I bought my first motorcycle in 1965, RACE school did not exist, so no, you are not that old and experienced.


Take a school or a track day - learn to look where you want to go, not where you are.
Everything in the moto world doesn't revolve around turns on a race track, get used to other people presenting other options.
 
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I still want to know hard he is trying to get his knee down. Watch a bunch of new track riders enter t8 at Mosport and it's a spectacle of wobbly lines with 90 percent of the focus going to the right knee.
 
I still want to know hard he is trying to get his knee down. Watch a bunch of new track riders enter t8 at Mosport and it's a spectacle of wobbly lines with 90 percent of the focus going to the right knee.
If you are suggesting he is spending way too much effort on hanging a knee out instead of just riding the corner I'm inclined to agree with you, I've followed a few riders around corners that were trying to do just that and I almost ran them over in mid turn.
 
If you are suggesting he is spending way too much effort on hanging a knee out instead of just riding the corner I'm inclined to agree with you, I've followed a few riders around corners that were trying to do just that and I almost ran them over in mid turn.
Exactly.
 
I still want to know hard he is trying to get his knee down. Watch a bunch of new track riders enter t8 at Mosport and it's a spectacle of wobbly lines with 90 percent of the focus going to the right knee.

That is one of my lucid intensions, yes! But the desire to smooth out the ramp is greater..
 
That is one of my lucid intensions, yes! But the desire to smooth out the ramp is greater..
Its pretty hard to do on a ramp. You can't see the corner exit, so you keep picking a new apex every few seconds through the turn.

Dragging knee is a by-product of going fast. Best left to controlled situations such as tracks (or empty parking lots and a 30m circle of cones, as @shanekingsley said)
Also best on a bike you don't give a **** about.


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That is one of my lucid intensions, yes! But the desire to smooth out the ramp is greater..
Ok. Stop even thinking about it. Fixed. Seriously, hang off but leave your knee up. The only thing you should be thinking about is smooth throttle.

And btw, there are no guardrails, curbs, telephone poles or oncoming traffic that will snap your spine at the track.
 
Ok. Stop even thinking about it. Fixed. Seriously, hang off but leave your knee up. The only thing you should be thinking about is smooth throttle.

Noted, Wingboy! Thanks!
 
Its pretty hard to do on a ramp. You can't see the corner exit, so you keep picking a new apex every few seconds through the turn.

Extremely true!! Thankfully I use the painted lines as my line of reference and use it to arc out my turn
 
Spend the money on a course with Racer5 or Fast, doing ramps gets old really fast after going to the track. 5 Years experience riding is nothing really.
To be fair though, I know guys with 20 years of riding experience that have been doing the wrong things for 20 years...

We can all learn something new.

But, yes. Course. Racer 5, fast, s.m.a.r.t. rider training at Horseshoe with Clinton Smout, Trail Tours, Total Control 1&2

Anything that adds to your bag of tricks.

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Absolutely don't focus on trying to get a knee down!

In 30+ years of riding on the street, I have never touched a knee down. Shift weight around on the bike - standing on the pegs and shifting about - Absolutely. But not knee down. It requires cutting into safety margins too far and taking chances with uncertain pavement conditions and traffic that I'm not willing to take on the street.

On the racetrack ... it just happens. Again, it's not an objective to try to do it. It just happens.

So now, try this. Find out if your steering is "neutral". When you are mid-corner after you have set your lean angle and cornering trajectory, the bike should require no steering input on the bars in order to maintain that trajectory. It should feel like you could take your hands off the bars and it would continue its path - you could steer it with your fingertips. That's what it should feel like - "neutral".

The situation of the bike wanting to tighten its line, or continue falling into the corner, is not common (the other direction is a lot more common) but it can happen. Possible causes:
- Tires. Pressure too high, or incorrect tire sizes for the rims, or tire profiles too "pointy" for what the geometry of the bike wants, whether due to high wear on the edges (ex race tires) or simply the nature of the tires that were chosen.
- Geometry. This relates to the steering head angle and the amount of trail in the geometry (these are connected) - these are related to whether the bike has a nose-down tail-up pitch attitude (which heads in the nervous/twitchy/unstable direction) or a nose-up tail-squatting attitude (which heads in the heavy/stable/"riding through glue"/"steers like a barge" direction), and both of those relate to the rider-aboard ride heights front and rear ... too low in the front, or too high in the rear. Ride height and preload (and spring rate!) affect the pitch of the bike when it settles down in the corner. I found out last year with my race bike that the rear spring rate has a very strong influence on this!
- On the subject of geometry ... a bike that has been crashed (frontal impact) and has a bent frame that has the effect of shortening the wheelbase ... also has the effect of steepening the steering head and shortening the trail ... unstable ... see above.
- Rider behaviour. Hanging off too much for the amount of lean angle being requested ...
- Weight distribution, both fore/aft and vertically. BUT ... I am operating on the assumption that this is a sport bike and the rider in question is riding solo (not carrying a passenger), weighs somewhere in the vicinity of what the bike's suspension is designed for, and does not have a way-up-high-and-back luggage rack installed.

I am operating on the assumption that the bike in question is the one in the original poster's signature - a late model Honda CBR600RR. I've ridden those, on the street, and on the racetrack. There is nothing "wrong" with those, the way they came out of the factory. The steering is biased towards being rock-solid stable, not nervous. (If you think a CBR600RR is nervous, don't ride an R6. Personally I want the bike to turn, and I'll deal with the stability or lack thereof later.)
 
Extremely true!! Thankfully I use the painted lines as my line of reference and use it to arc out my turn
friend of mine went into a guard rail @ lawrence ramps about a month back. i posted it in the fallen riders forum, don't be him.

for what it's worth he has almost a decade of seat time and track exp.
 
Getting a knee down on the street is easy.

As is getting the elbow down.

Quickly followed by the shoulder.

And the back.

And then the head.

And then the other knee...

Easy.
is this the origins of "head, shoulders, knees and toes."?
 

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