And.... the rider's own stupidity contributed as well. Easily avoidable.
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Quebec Trial - Car Stops to help ducks, Motorcycle hits car (fatality)
- Thread starter DECIMIS
- Start date
And.... the rider's own stupidity contributed as well. Easily avoidable.
What is reasonable about sentencing this girl to a federal penententuary for 5 years?
Having her actually serve 3 of those means you are denying her parole multiple times?
Do you really believe she will learn something from it?
Do yu think she's a danger to society?
Is she a risk to reoffend?
Closure for the family?
Does the wife even want to see this girl jailed? I doubt she does.. based on what she said about her being charged.
Drunk drivers that kill get less time than that!?
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Already answered. Please see my previous post regarding the reasons for criminal penalties. A real penalty for her actions would satisfy two of the three possible reasons why incarceration is a desirable outcome.
That some people somehow manage to not get a reasonable sentence does not invalidate it when another person does receive one.
I have read articles that say she had her 4-ways on, and other articles that say she did not. Whatevz.
All the comments on the news websites makes me feel depressed for our future. Somehow people don't realize that we are responsible for our actions and their are consequences for those actions regardless of what our intentions are. Back in highschool a friend of mine was driving her mom's Volvo to school, entering the WB 403 at Waterdown Rd. She was unable to find a gap to merge into so she stopped at the end of the on ramp, and was then promptly hit by a cube van going 100km/hr that never even hit the brakes. Cube van driver was deemed 100% at fault but I never thought that was right. Stopping in a live lane, especially a lane where all drivers will be looking over their shoulder to merge, was horribly irresponsible. No one was badly hurt that day... but could have been.
The online commenters have showed me that they think it's clearly the riders fault since he must not have been paying attention. I wish we could set up some sort of experiment without their knowledge.
-Put these expert drivers in a car at 110kph in the left lane on any busy major highway that does not have a left lane shoulder
-Have them following another vehicle with a roughly 2-second gap. Hardly anyone leaves this much room but lets just use that.....
-Have the lead vehicle swerve out of the way at the last possible moment to avoid a large concrete block that is centered in the left lane.
-Record the percentage of drivers who are able to avoid hitting the concrete block.
-Or we could make the block out of foam that looks like concrete... whatever.
I would estimate no more than 25%
All the comments on the news websites makes me feel depressed for our future. Somehow people don't realize that we are responsible for our actions and their are consequences for those actions regardless of what our intentions are. Back in highschool a friend of mine was driving her mom's Volvo to school, entering the WB 403 at Waterdown Rd. She was unable to find a gap to merge into so she stopped at the end of the on ramp, and was then promptly hit by a cube van going 100km/hr that never even hit the brakes. Cube van driver was deemed 100% at fault but I never thought that was right. Stopping in a live lane, especially a lane where all drivers will be looking over their shoulder to merge, was horribly irresponsible. No one was badly hurt that day... but could have been.
The online commenters have showed me that they think it's clearly the riders fault since he must not have been paying attention. I wish we could set up some sort of experiment without their knowledge.
-Put these expert drivers in a car at 110kph in the left lane on any busy major highway that does not have a left lane shoulder
-Have them following another vehicle with a roughly 2-second gap. Hardly anyone leaves this much room but lets just use that.....
-Have the lead vehicle swerve out of the way at the last possible moment to avoid a large concrete block that is centered in the left lane.
-Record the percentage of drivers who are able to avoid hitting the concrete block.
-Or we could make the block out of foam that looks like concrete... whatever.
I would estimate no more than 25%
Regarding the four-way flashers the defendant's lawyer put forth that they were on, at the time of the collision, and the police reported that they were on at the time of their arrival. Witness testimony stated that they were not on at the time of the collision.
From a physics point of view if you induce a hard physical shock to a red hot element it will very frequently cause it to break, effectively blowing the bulb. There's a whole segment of vehicle collision/crash reconstruction that's devoted to this. In aircraft crashes they use it to determine if a given warning light was lit, unlit, or was already blown and couldn't be lit in a crash.
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/CAautomobilelights.pdf
From a physics point of view if you induce a hard physical shock to a red hot element it will very frequently cause it to break, effectively blowing the bulb. There's a whole segment of vehicle collision/crash reconstruction that's devoted to this. In aircraft crashes they use it to determine if a given warning light was lit, unlit, or was already blown and couldn't be lit in a crash.
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/CAautomobilelights.pdf
Basically I agree with you. The armchair quarterbacks fail to account for the varying degrees of alertness.
It's easy to say ride at maximum alertness but that means tension all the time, like a fighter pilot over enemy territory. Is a ride with that much tension enjoyable?
Oh right I forgot you were there LOL gimme a break dude
I can think of several ways that the situation could've unfolded where the car wouldn't be seen until too late.
What I can't see is a way for this to have happened without this woman parking her car in a live lane like some kind of clueless, negligent imbecile.
DECIMIS
Well-known member
All good discussions!
I will admit, the knowledgeable and wise comments and discussions that have occurred in this thread have enlightened me, and my opinion about this incident has changed. It's still difficult, and tears me up a bit. It's a tragic story, from every angle.
I will admit, the knowledgeable and wise comments and discussions that have occurred in this thread have enlightened me, and my opinion about this incident has changed. It's still difficult, and tears me up a bit. It's a tragic story, from every angle.
We have a natural tendency to avoid collisions and the books are full of incidents, many serious, where cars have swerved to avoid animals or errant drivers and collided with third parties.
This is far short of what duck lady did. The former is a knee jerk reaction and all is over in 1 or 2 seconds. Duck lady stopped her car, put it in park, got out and started chasing baby ducks for ??? how long before the crash?
This may have started as a knee jerk reaction when she recognized the ducklings were in danger but this disaster played out over many seconds. She had time to rethink her actions. Instead she entered the magic kingdom of Disneyland.
Can she be re-programmed to think of animals on the road as inverted potholes? Dodge them if you can but don't kill someone to do it.
BTW uness she's a vegan she's responsible for the deaths of animals so no poor little critter attitude allowed.
One has to ask how many other drivers have this attitude and how they can be either re-programmed or taken off the roads.
When you are driving and another vehicle suddenly swerves into your lane do you immediately swerve away from a certain collision to a maybe collision or stand your ground and take the thump? No time to think or do a shoulder check.
Is collision avoidance even taught in drivers ed?
This is far short of what duck lady did. The former is a knee jerk reaction and all is over in 1 or 2 seconds. Duck lady stopped her car, put it in park, got out and started chasing baby ducks for ??? how long before the crash?
This may have started as a knee jerk reaction when she recognized the ducklings were in danger but this disaster played out over many seconds. She had time to rethink her actions. Instead she entered the magic kingdom of Disneyland.
Can she be re-programmed to think of animals on the road as inverted potholes? Dodge them if you can but don't kill someone to do it.
BTW uness she's a vegan she's responsible for the deaths of animals so no poor little critter attitude allowed.
One has to ask how many other drivers have this attitude and how they can be either re-programmed or taken off the roads.
When you are driving and another vehicle suddenly swerves into your lane do you immediately swerve away from a certain collision to a maybe collision or stand your ground and take the thump? No time to think or do a shoulder check.
Is collision avoidance even taught in drivers ed?
Make sure the lead vehicle is a truck towing a trailer
A truck towing a trailer, that was infront of the bike, made it around the stopped car.
Sure, there are several ways.... and one of them would be if the rider was paying attention.. and wasn't "gesturing" the girl.
A car stopped because it broke down, an object on the road, a blown tire causing a car to veer off.... would probably have the same result... IF the rider was looking sideways and "gesturing" when it unfolded.
She was stupid and ignorant when she caused the situation.. but the rider's actions, or lack of, is what crashed himself... and his kid.
Rehabilitation
Retribution
Crime Prevention
How is sending her to prison satisfying two of the three?
Rehabilitation.
Prison will not rehabilitate her... or anyone for that matter.
She is not a 'criminal' in that she is going out and knowingly commiting crimes. She made a mistake, albeit a bad one.. it was still a mistake...
I am sure she has learned anything and everything she will from this already... sending her to prison is a waste of time and tax payer money...
Retribution... for who?
The wife will find closure if she is sent to prison that she wouldn't find if she wasn't?
Does the wife even want to see this girl sent to prison?
I doubt it very much based on her previous remarks about the girl even being charged.
Crime Prevention.
Is she a risk to reoffend? No, she's not.
Sentenced to 5 years would see her eligible for parole in under a year. She would be a prime candidate for parole. What would the reasons be for denying her parole multiple times to see her serve 3 of the 5 behind bars?
Precisely.
I know both of you don't really think this incident, and/or the outcome, will have any real effect as "crime prevention". Other than the few that were involved or witnessed it... no one will take any lessons from this... esspecially not any of those people that really need to be taught one.
The attempt must be made.
I think something very important is being ignored when discussing the negligence of the rider and the negligence of the driver. A highway is purpose built for vehicles to travel down at a high rate of speed, in a single direction. There are rules put into place to ensure that vehicles maintain those speeds and order while traveling down the road, to avoid accidents. Fast and passing traffic on the left, slower moving traffic on the right. While speed limits exist to ensure a consistent flow of traffic, many conditions require drivers to deviate from those posted limits. In some cases, the posted limits are artificially low, in that a higher limit would not result in a higher rate of incident. As such, we see many drivers and riders on Ontario highways travelling 20-30 km/h above the posted highway speed limits, and little penalty enforced.
With that in mind, how can anyone make the claim that the riders 20-30 km/h deviation from the posted speed limit be as negligent as a vehicle COMPLETELY STOPPED in the expected passing and fastest lane of traffic. A deviation of 20-30 km/h is insignificant compared to a deviation of 100% of the posted limit! It is not uncommon or unexpected for traffic on ANY road to be travelling at a mild departure from the posted limit, but it is CERTAINLY not expected or common for a vehicle to NOT BE TRAVELING AT ALL. Especially in the expected passing/fast lane on a high speed highway.
With that in mind, how can anyone make the claim that the riders 20-30 km/h deviation from the posted speed limit be as negligent as a vehicle COMPLETELY STOPPED in the expected passing and fastest lane of traffic. A deviation of 20-30 km/h is insignificant compared to a deviation of 100% of the posted limit! It is not uncommon or unexpected for traffic on ANY road to be travelling at a mild departure from the posted limit, but it is CERTAINLY not expected or common for a vehicle to NOT BE TRAVELING AT ALL. Especially in the expected passing/fast lane on a high speed highway.
If she's able to have such a monumental lapse of judgment while driving a car, I'm sure she's capable of similarly stupid behavior in other aspects of her life in society.
Apparently she couldn't believe that she was found guilty by the jury. That tells me that she is not all there.
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