PC5 Auto-tune
- Thread starter Shaman
- Start date
Wow.
AT does not actively make changes while you're riding. While the AT is running it will collect data and make trim adjustment recommendations. You then need to connect your laptop, review those trim recommendations, then hit 'accept' in order to make any map changes.
At that point it WILL change the fuel map you have loaded on the PCV.
As has been mentioned already. The sampling times the AT uses to make trim adjustment recommendations is too slow to generate good data on the track. Especially at low throttle inputs! If you repeatedly run the AT and accept the trim changes it WILL **** up your map and your bike will run like crap.
If you don't have a team that can analyze the data and knows from experience what data to ignore and what to accept its useless. Remove it from the bike and sell it.
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AT does not actively make changes while you're riding. While the AT is running it will collect data and make trim adjustment recommendations. You then need to connect your laptop, review those trim recommendations, then hit 'accept' in order to make any map changes.
At that point it WILL change the fuel map you have loaded on the PCV.
As has been mentioned already. The sampling times the AT uses to make trim adjustment recommendations is too slow to generate good data on the track. Especially at low throttle inputs! If you repeatedly run the AT and accept the trim changes it WILL **** up your map and your bike will run like crap.
If you don't have a team that can analyze the data and knows from experience what data to ignore and what to accept its useless. Remove it from the bike and sell it.
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kwtoxman
Well-known member
C'mon caboose, usually you and I are on the same page. 
You don't even know how a PCV autotune works. 
Yes, AT does makes active changes when it is on and one is riding. As described earlier. And lots of other sources saying such in addition to my previous link(s).
http://www.roadstarraider.com/index.php?topic=16523.0
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=39457.msg231085#msg231085
http://www.hunterworks.com/pc_v_auto_tuner_explained
I'm totally repeating myself now. I'm not keen on a discussion where there is no supporting opposing info posted and people don't know how the PCV autotune works. I have nothing to further add unless someone can post some actual data in support of an opposing view.
People can choose to believe all the data and sources, or not. That's fine.
Talk about wow.
You don't even know how a PCV autotune works. Yes, AT does makes active changes when it is on and one is riding. As described earlier. And lots of other sources saying such in addition to my previous link(s).
http://www.roadstarraider.com/index.php?topic=16523.0
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=39457.msg231085#msg231085
http://www.hunterworks.com/pc_v_auto_tuner_explained
Yes. But also, as I mentioned earlier, when autotune is on the PCV is using the trim tables actively in combination with the base fuel tables to adjust overall fuel.
Yes, accepting trim changes will alter the base fuel map tables, and not until then. I posted as much earlier. But no matter whether this is done or not, as mentioned multiple times when the AT is on the trim tables are used in real time riding in combination with the base fuel maps to adjust overall fuel.
All I see are suppositions with zero supporting info or data. It doesn't do anything to counter the info I linked to earlier, including direct support for the use of track riding and AT to build a map.
I'm totally repeating myself now. I'm not keen on a discussion where there is no supporting opposing info posted and people don't know how the PCV autotune works. I have nothing to further add unless someone can post some actual data in support of an opposing view.
People can choose to believe all the data and sources, or not. That's fine.
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So I went and read the AT user guide and the language does suggest that it makes trim adjustments while riding.
I firmly believed that it did not. Frankly, I don't think it's a good thing that it makes adjustments without approval first.
Regardless, I don't know a single person who used the AT on a race track and got good results with it. Everyone that I know who has used one and made iterative changes has ended up with a bike that ran like crap.
Do what you wish.
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I firmly believed that it did not. Frankly, I don't think it's a good thing that it makes adjustments without approval first.
Regardless, I don't know a single person who used the AT on a race track and got good results with it. Everyone that I know who has used one and made iterative changes has ended up with a bike that ran like crap.
Do what you wish.
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boyoboy
Well-known member
been following the thread, and i know the frustration. i do not know FI / electronics.
what i have gathered from the thread is that AT doesnt work well at the track. its too slow. what if you went out for a session and rode in a different manner, still using the gas and gears well, but in a slower smoother manner that is less hectic, thereby giving the AT the time req'd to do its "stuff".
or maybe its just a dumb idea.
what i have gathered from the thread is that AT doesnt work well at the track. its too slow. what if you went out for a session and rode in a different manner, still using the gas and gears well, but in a slower smoother manner that is less hectic, thereby giving the AT the time req'd to do its "stuff".
or maybe its just a dumb idea.
It would be pretty hard to hold the throttle at say 5% and then move to 10% all the way to 100% through the entire rev range without getting run over or ending up in the bushes and it would also take a whole day probably. So how much tire did you now use and paid track time was wasted? Close to what a proper Dyno tune costed and it's probably not going to be as good either. I'd rather use my limited track time to go fast than mess around with AT.
I was just relaying what the expert told me. The point was that the fuel mapping doesn't need adjustments based on the ram air effect. The ECU compensates properly based on air box sensors. Of course more air can be sucked in, and that's likely why the air box pressure doesn't go up very much. It's not like a free supercharger.
Shaman
Well-known member
OK I'm back... took 2nd in qualifying in SBK and held 2nd for about 5 laps in the race until I faded a bit and then eventually slowed up a bit to take 3rd. The weekend puts me third overall in the AM classes from what I can figure. The 600 though, I ran around the track with less than half throttle and 10,000 rpm top before the engine would start cutting - I believe now that it is *NOT* the PC5 or the auto-tune at all but instead a fuel pump that does not like being put in a position where it doesn't have nice cooling, thin, ethanol-heavy racing fuel to pump but instead, 100% gasoline Shell 91.
That's what I believe the problem is. If it isn't, then it fooled me well. Bike would go 3-4 laps from dead cold and run cleanly, then start breaking up on full throttle and eventually wouldn't pull or run past 10K. SV650 was literally pulling me hard down the straight (although I did pass him and put distance on him since it was his first time in an AM class). What sucks is that before the engine cacked between corner two and three, I was on a tear for 3rd place even though I started in last position (I didn't run qualifying in 600).
Missed opportunity, yes, but I finished the race and got the points I needed.
That's what I believe the problem is. If it isn't, then it fooled me well. Bike would go 3-4 laps from dead cold and run cleanly, then start breaking up on full throttle and eventually wouldn't pull or run past 10K. SV650 was literally pulling me hard down the straight (although I did pass him and put distance on him since it was his first time in an AM class). What sucks is that before the engine cacked between corner two and three, I was on a tear for 3rd place even though I started in last position (I didn't run qualifying in 600).
Missed opportunity, yes, but I finished the race and got the points I needed.
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Fuel pump is exactly what was wrong with my Kawi (not being able to rev above 12000 when the secondary injectors kick in) even though the pump bench tested perfectly based on the service manual procedure.
