Ontarios Debt.

[Red_Liner740]

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http://ontariodebtclock.ca/

Ontario is 356 Billion dollars in debt, and to make it worse, we're adding to it at an increasing rate of about 2G's a second! Thats $172 000 a day. How scary is that? Worst part is Ontario has been on the giving side of the Canadian Equalization Payments since its inception up until two years ago. Now, we're the second largest parasite sucking on that proverbial tit. An industrial and cultural powerhouse, now we borrow 3B a year from Alberta, BC and other provinces...


One thing i cant figure out is if Canadian Federal Debt of 600+ Billion is the sum of all Provincial debt or is additional debt other than Provincial?

Isnt it kinda scary that Ontarios debt is more than half of all of Canada?

Everyone is talking about California and the debt problems they are having and yet Ontario's Debt is higher than California....

 

[eljay]

federal debt is separate from provincial, which is separate from municipal, with is separate from all sorts of government shell corps that are used to hide government debt (supra national, trans national, sub sovereign etc. CMHC and GTAA are brilliant examples of over indebted "companies" that are owned b the government but don't show up as government debt) which is separate from household debt. the debts really stack up.
the beauty of Canada is that the feds would probably bail out provinces anyway, so not to worry, and the bank of Canada can print money as it sees fit to pay off the debts.
the majority voted for it, so we have to eat it. besides, interest rates are low so borrow while the gettin's good right? as long as we are not paying 100% effective tax rates, politicians can spend as much as they can get, because there's always 1 more tax dollar that can be used to pay it back another day.

http://ontariodebtclock.ca/

Ontario is 356 Billion dollars in debt, and to make it worse, we're adding to it at an increasing rate of about 2G's a second! Thats $172 000 a day. How scary is that? Worst part is Ontario has been on the giving side of the Canadian Equalization Payments since its inception up until two years ago. Now, we're the second largest parasite sucking on that proverbial tit. An industrial and cultural powerhouse, now we borrow 3B a year from Alberta, BC and other provinces...


One thing i cant figure out is if Canadian Federal Debt of 600+ Billion is the sum of all Provincial debt or is additional debt other than Provincial?

Isnt it kinda scary that Ontarios debt is more than half of all of Canada?

Everyone is talking about California and the debt problems they are having and yet Ontario's Debt is higher than California....

 

[油井緋色]

^Interest rates are low (at least for mortgages) because the down payments are stupidly high and so is the housing market. This is what we, Canadians, did to prevent what happened in the US (banks collapsing).

 

[Red_Liner740]

^Interest rates are low (at least for mortgages) because the down payments are stupidly high and so is the housing market. This is what we, Canadians, did to prevent what happened in the US (banks collapsing).

Eeerrr what? Subprime loans (what you're talking about) ARE the reason the US housing bubble happened. Down payments are stupid high? Last time i checked a minimum of 5% was all that was needed. Basically you can leverage yourself out like a whore, afford a sub prime loan and the banks will let you be house poor.

The real reason Canadian Prime interest rate (what all interest rates are based on) is low is to stimulate the economy and to allow the government to continue to borrow money at a low repayment rate...

 

[Renboy]

The housing market is high because of low interest rates, not the opposite. If the overnight lending rate were to increase by 1% we'd be headed into a recession. If it increased by 2%, half the houses on your street would be vacant. With respect to Ontario's debt, we did it to ourselves...more accurately all those that voted McGuinty did it to us. Ontarions are worse than Americans, they only voted Bush in twice, we went for 3 with McGuinty.

 

[LiNK666]

We are exactly like California. Our public sector is paid much more lucratively than their private sector counter parts. We have a government (both provincial and municipal) that's killing small business with either lack of support or over regulation all for the sake of the children. We have an insurance industry that just makes you scratch your head and go wtf.

Life is very hard and almost unaffordable to the average person in Ontario. I really don't know how immigrants survive on minimum wage.

 

[油井緋色]

Eeerrr what? Subprime loans (what you're talking about) ARE the reason the US housing bubble happened. Down payments are stupid high? Last time i checked a minimum of 5% was all that was needed. Basically you can leverage yourself out like a whore, afford a sub prime loan and the banks will let you be house poor.

The real reason Canadian Prime interest rate (what all interest rates are based on) is low is to stimulate the economy and to allow the government to continue to borrow money at a low repayment rate...

I heard something completely different from a business prof. And I'm pretty sure banks, right now, are not handing out mortgages unless you can afford something like 20-30%, this prevents loans from going out to people who won't be paying back which is why the US economy blew up? I don't know if any of this is true; again, just taking the word from a business professor...though I'd say being a professor gives him credibility.

 

[Roomie]

Life is very hard and almost unaffordable to the average person in Ontario. I really don't know how immigrants survive on minimum wage.

Everything here goes up with the exception of wages. It's ridiculous and onterrible is never getting out of that debt.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Once upon a time we had industry. Then it got moved to China. We thought we'd fall back on services, but a good chunk of that got moved to India. All we have are natural resources and we are not leveraging them enough. We should follow Norway's example, but that's not happening. We swing too far to the right and got the US right on our backs, ready to include us in the axis of evil if we ever developed enough of a spine to do what's needed.

 

[eljay]

The profs an idiot and most are (I said that). Buying a house is super easy peasy if you have 5% down and way too easy if you have 10% down. 20% makes it like buying from a vending machine. 30%? That probably rarely happens. No one is going to tie up more cash then necessary for a down payment.

I heard something completely different from a business prof. And I'm pretty sure banks, right now, are not handing out mortgages unless you can afford something like 20-30%, this prevents loans from going out to people who won't be paying back which is why the US economy blew up? I don't know if any of this is true; again, just taking the word from a business professor...though I'd say being a professor gives him credibility.

 

[boarder360]

The profs an idiot and most are (I said that). Buying a house is super easy peasy if you have 5% down and way too easy if you have 10% down. 20% makes it like buying from a vending machine. 30%? That probably rarely happens. No one is going to tie up more cash then necessary for a down payment.

Think he might be talking about your monthly mortgage payments can not be more then 30% of your monthly income.

 

[Red_Liner740]

I heard something completely different from a business prof. And I'm pretty sure banks, right now, are not handing out mortgages unless you can afford something like 20-30%, this prevents loans from going out to people who won't be paying back which is why the US economy blew up? I don't know if any of this is true; again, just taking the word from a business professor...though I'd say being a professor gives him credibility.

Either your prof is a moron or blatantly lying to you. I purchased a house in 2010. 5% down and 2.2% interest rate...I was approved for a 450K house....I havent laughed so hard in my life. At that time there was no way i would be able to afford a mortgage payment at that monetary amount and put food on the table. I told them so, and they still assured me i could. Imagine if that variable prime - 0.8 changed to 4%. I would have defaulted on the house withing 6 months.

I chose to purchase the cheapest affordable house that met my criteria, that constituted moving out of Toronto. I can at this point purchase and afford a 450K house, but i sure as **** aint going house shopping just because i can currently afford it.

Thats the problem, people max themselves out leaving no buffer. What if someone gets laid off, what if you take a paycut etc etc.

I'm doing some more research and sorry to say but Canada is in a pretty bad financial situation. Everyone is laughing at US and their debt and yet Canada is not that far behind. How can we, with so much natural resources be indebted so badly? We are in debt up to our noses and no way to slow it down....

http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

check out the world debt by years, between 2002 and 2012 the World debt has risen from 15Trillion to 47Trillion....

and if you really want to spin your head, have a gander at this...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[BLUE_KAWI]

Keiser Report: Bitcoin vs Banksters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6pBS6uptE

 

[Motorcycle Mike]

Red_liner740, I am like you in that I bought the cheapest freehold house I wanted in the location I wanted despite being approved for much more.

I also had more than 20% down, got a variable rate of prime - 0.09 (2.1% for now) and am paying it off accelerated bi-weekly plus additional payments to reduce the principal faster.

I also have a bunch of cash in TSFAs for emergencies, a couple of low interest GICs, and a couple mutual funds. I no longer invest in the stock market because I don't have the time nor am I home during trading hours to be active enough in it, hence the mutual funds.

What worries me, though, is that recent news does nothing to comfort savers. Between countries printing money making their value worth less, interest rates that don't even match inflation, and banks starting to look at taxing savings (Cyprus) -- and I am starting to second guess this being responsible with money thing.

If I bought the biggest house I could afford I would have no savings that could be skimmed from banks or eroded by inflation, and with the value of the money decreasing with every dollar they print soon my huge debt would be worth peanuts -- seems as though conditions are turning to favour those with high debt.

 

[murf]

I heard something completely different from a business prof. And I'm pretty sure banks, right now, are not handing out mortgages unless you can afford something like 20-30%, this prevents loans from going out to people who won't be paying back which is why the US economy blew up? I don't know if any of this is true; again, just taking the word from a business professor...though I'd say being a professor gives him credibility.

Wrong.
Switch schools.....and quick!

 

[murf]

Red_liner740, I am like you in that I bought the cheapest freehold house I wanted in the location I wanted despite being approved for much more.

I also had more than 20% down, got a variable rate of prime - 0.09 (2.1% for now) and am paying it off accelerated bi-weekly plus additional payments to reduce the principal faster.

I also have a bunch of cash in TSFAs for emergencies, a couple of low interest GICs, and a couple mutual funds. I no longer invest in the stock market because I don't have the time nor am I home during trading hours to be active enough in it, hence the mutual funds.

What worries me, though, is that recent news does nothing to comfort savers. Between countries printing money making their value worth less, interest rates that don't even match inflation, and banks starting to look at taxing savings (Cyprus) -- and I am starting to second guess this being responsible with money thing.

If I bought the biggest house I could afford I would have no savings that could be skimmed from banks or eroded by inflation, and with the value of the money decreasing with every dollar they print soon my huge debt would be worth peanuts -- seems as though conditions are turning to favour those with high debt.

It seems that way......just imagine if you would have bought that much more expensive house in Toronto a few years back.......it would be worth a hell of alot more.
Many people are buying the most expensive house possible in Toronto in hopes that when they retire they sell and the profits become a source of retirement funds. It has been working the last few years.

 

[RockerGuy]

No wonder the people is in such great debt, if the gov't is, its hard for the people not to be

 

[fastar1]

With respect to Ontario's debt, we did it to ourselves...more accurately all those that voted McGuinty did it to us. Ontarions are worse than Americans, they only voted Bush in twice, we went for 3 with McGuinty.

Come again?

McGuinty was elected in 2003. In 2007 the CAD hit parity with the USD, and in 2008 the great recession struck. Or are you blaming McGuinty for the exchange rate and the global economic crisis? Did you see him play hard ball with the teachers last year? Seems to me like he always did what had to be done, and never got any credit for it.

 

[fastar1]

I heard something completely different from a business prof. And I'm pretty sure banks, right now, are not handing out mortgages unless you can afford something like 20-30%, this prevents loans from going out to people who won't be paying back which is why the US economy blew up? I don't know if any of this is true; again, just taking the word from a business professor...though I'd say being a professor gives him credibility.

What your teachers say is only valid at exam time. After that, forget everything they told you.

 

[fastar1]

Life is very hard and almost unaffordable to the average person in Ontario. I really don't know how immigrants survive on minimum wage.

Based on what everyone who visits tells me, Ontario, and Canada in general, is one of the cheapest places to live in the world. Can you name a cheaper one, other than the US?

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