One insurance fraudster down, few hundred to go... | Page 7 | GTAMotorcycle.com

One insurance fraudster down, few hundred to go...

Go ahead. Say, "Wrist slap and a fine, that's smaller than what they took in over the course of a week."

They'll be fined, a letter will go to their respective colleges. They won't pay the fine, they'll claim bankruptcy, and the clinic will close. They'll open a new one in the same spot with a different name, They'll work at the clinic instead of owning in. A buddy of theirs will take over and the cycle will continue.
 
what is dictated by professional ethics, and what is dictated by his employers is not necessarily the same thing, are they?

and who is it exactly that decides what 'his job' is?

yes, his duty is to the corporation. and clearly, the 'board of directors' supported/rubberstamped black's shenanigans. so
so his choice was either to do what black told him to do, or quit?

how easy a choice is that? what would you have done if you were in his shoes? as the courts have apparently determined, he was given a string of questionable duties, some that were on the line and some over it. and now those courts have removed any culpability on kipnis' part for black's transgressions.

There are a multitude of choices, of which quitting is one of them, as already stated.

Like I said, I just gave a lecture on this (ethical issues for in-house counsel - and my course was accredited by the law society).

All a court said was he isn't a criminal, he was still disbarred.

I don't know what you are arguing with, thats just the facts.

I have also quit 2 jobs based on ethical issues before (one is law society rules based and the other was just conscience based), so yeah its clear what I would have done. Nice try on that one though.
 
There are a multitude of choices, of which quitting is one of them, as already stated.

Like I said, I just gave a lecture on this (ethical issues for in-house counsel - and my course was accredited by the law society).

All a court said was he isn't a criminal, he was still disbarred.

I don't know what you are arguing with, thats just the facts.

I have also quit 2 jobs based on ethical issues before (one is law society rules based and the other was just conscience based), so yeah its clear what I would have done. Nice try on that one though.

yes, he is still disbarred, although i understand he now going through the process of getting his license back, since his exonerration.
 
yes, he is still disbarred, although i understand he now going through the process of getting his license back, since his exonerration.

Given the situation they are both not required to, and unlikely to, restore him at the bar. If I recall correctly he didn't contest the disbarment, in the first place.
 
Given the situation they are both not required to, and unlikely to, restore him at the bar. If I recall correctly he didn't contest the disbarment, in the first place.

regardless of his current status, his life was ruined by black, and he didn't profit from the deals other than keeping his job. you seem to think it was an easy decision for him to walk away. contesting the disbarment at the time was probably not first of mind, since for as long as his convictions held, he knew he had no chance.
 
They'll be fined, a letter will go to their respective colleges. They won't pay the fine, they'll claim bankruptcy, and the clinic will close. They'll open a new one in the same spot with a different name, They'll work at the clinic instead of owning in. A buddy of theirs will take over and the cycle will continue.

I figured it would be something lame like that.

And the drivers of Ontario will continue to get screwed.... :agave:
 
regardless of his current status, his life was ruined by black, and he didn't profit from the deals other than keeping his job. you seem to think it was an easy decision for him to walk away. contesting the disbarment at the time was probably not first of mind, since for as long as his convictions held, he knew he had no chance.

His life was ruined by his decisions and associations.

Here's an important piece of information, that you should take to heart and remember for your lifetime: Life is full of tough decisions, or rather decisions that have an easy and a hard way to resolve the situation. If you take the easy route, your whole life, then it'll eventually come back and bite you. The RIGHT path is most often the one you least want to follow.
 
His life was ruined by his decisions and associations.

Here's an important piece of information, that you should take to heart and remember for your lifetime: Life is full of tough decisions, or rather decisions that have an easy and a hard way to resolve the situation. If you take the easy route, your whole life, then it'll eventually come back and bite you. The RIGHT path is most often the one you least want to follow.

well, as i said before, we'll have to agree to disagree on this, because i continue to feel that kipnis' life was ruined by d-bag black in a direct and meaningful way, and disagree on whether black was worse than the sri lankan d-bag. whatever.

as for your yoda-like attempt at sophism, i should tell you that the phrase "you should take to heart and remember for your lifetime" comes off as patronizing. don't know if that's how you intended it. . .never in all the years that i modded or admined did i deign to tell people how to live their lives, but to each his own, i guess.

you generally have been an even-handed mod, so i'll take your post with a grain of salt--you must mean well. . .i hope your comment IS taken to heart by the less mature members who consistently make posts and threads personal.
 
It was meant to be patronizing, so I guess I succeeded.
well, thanks for being honest about it. . .that post says volumes about you. . .

frankly, i'm too old to be taking unsolicited advice from an admitted (now) partisan 'moderator'. . .i actually find it funny that you'd try to do that on a website for motorcycle riders who are fiercely independent and generally hate to be told what to do.

guess you don't live by your own words, since your post screams of taking the 'easy route'. . .

edit: lol, you should try re-posting your advice over on the marriage thread and see what people think. . .
 
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If I keep following this thread do I get a law degree from GTAM U or do I have to buy a box of corn flakes?
 
how easy a choice is that? what would you have done if you were in his shoes?

On this topic. I thought the above comment was rather patronizing and insulting.
 
His life was ruined by his decisions and associations.

I agree. He has no one to blame but himself.

The LSUC and other law societies all have hotlines for ethics. And a corporate lawyer's job is essentially to manage risk and deal with the multitude of conflicts and duties that arising in the corporate world.

So ya, blaming your boss is weaksauce, and pretty disgraceful to the profession really.
 
On this topic. I thought the above comment was rather patronizing and insulting.

so within the context of the entire post--not just the snippet you quoted--you felt my question was patronizing?

nope, that would have been an erroneous conclusion. it was a legitimate question on my part, i actually wanted to know. unlike rob's point, which he freely admitted was patronizing.
 
so within the context of the entire post--not just the snippet you quoted--you felt my question was patronizing?

nope, that would have been an erroneous conclusion. it was a legitimate question on my part, i actually wanted to know. unlike rob's point, which he freely admitted was patronizing.

legitmate to who?

Its rude, and insulting to people that take the responsibilities of the profession seriously.
 
legitmate to who?

Its rude, and insulting to people that take the responsibilities of the profession seriously.

if these choices are so clear and easily made, then why are there hotlines for lawyers to access as you suggest?

nowhere in my posts do i suggest that lawyers are unethical. in fact, i have friends who are lawyers and consider them all to be good, down-to-earth people. but they are also human beings, and humans do make mistakes. . .even lawyers.

if those hotlines exist, fantastic. that can only be good for the profession to have a resource available. but this pre-supposes that the lawyers know when to use those resources in every circumstance.

perhaps kipnis honestly thought those deals were just within the law, or maybe there might have been some hubris there, whatever.

i have never presumed to know all of the factors that were involved with his decisions--what he knew, what he didn't. you seem to have a much higher level of certainty.

i have had long conversations with lawyers in social settings, and asked similar questions from a layman's perspective, and none of them have ever perceived slight or taken umbrage as you have.

you are of course entitled to respond as you see fit, but i take no responsibility for how you have reacted. . .
 
I reacted by calling a rude suggestion rude. That is all.
 

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