Oil performance degrading after 1,500km?

[Brian P]

Not sure about that particular bike, but on other superbike brands, it's pretty common for the oil cooler to be an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger. That's the way my ZX10R is. The coolant passage through the oil cooler is not regulated by the thermostat.

The oil temp is going to be influenced by the thermostat-regulated coolant temperature in the cylinder head, which both fluids pass through.

 

[GreyGhost]

Not sure about that particular bike, but on other superbike brands, it's pretty common for the oil cooler to be an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger. That's the way my ZX10R is. The coolant passage through the oil cooler is not regulated by the thermostat.

The oil temp is going to be influenced by the thermostat-regulated coolant temperature in the cylinder head, which both fluids pass through.

It looks like S1000R has an air/oil HE. With no fan, that could explain why things feel different in traffic. If it had a coolant/oil HE, that would function well in traffic (as fan is getting ahead and shutting off).

Removed from a 2018

 

[Sunday Rider]

Definitely. I've order another 4L jug of Motul 7100 and will be doing the oil change as soon as it arrives.

Here's the sample I saved. 1,500km on this oil and light shining directly at it.

View attachment 69035

I guess the constant here is that you use the same oil and this seems way darker than usual. I am assuming filter was changed too (I know dumb question). If it is any consolation I just checked mine after 1,300 miles and it is dark (Liqui Moly, 10w40, first time I use this brand). I had a stop and go detour over the weekend for at least 20 minutes and the fan cycled on and off many times. So not sure if colour is a good indicator as you stated in your first post. I would be worried if shifting was clunky after it cooled.
You said you've used this oil before in other bikes, was it the same weight? It is just the 5w worries me.

Edit: I thought there might be an oil viscosity choice but I see in your previous post only 5W, what is their recommended oil change km range?

 

[STARSHIP]

BMW gearshift assist pro works best when the engine is under increasing load like acceleration. Seeing it is a new bike to you, would suggest checking the bike's forum BMW S1000R - Worldwide Forum and Owners Club and youtube

Regardless, you can also look into Yioutube below;
my bike has 70,000k and have not had to reset it, but it can get out of syncetc for several reasons including changing rearsets etc. high temps in slow moving traffic or accidentally activating the defeat switch on the clutch leaver.
shift assist will not work if you pull in the clutch leaver as it assumes you are doing a manual shift.

 

[Evoex]

BMW gearshift assist pro works best when the engine is under increasing load like acceleration. Seeing it is a new bike to you, would suggest checking the bike's forum BMW S1000R - Worldwide Forum and Owners Club and youtube

Regardless, you can also look into Yioutube below;
my bike has 70,000k and have not had to reset it, but it can get out of syncetc for several reasons including changing rearsets etc. high temps in slow moving traffic or accidentally activating the defeat switch on the clutch leaver.
shift assist will not work if you pull in the clutch leaver as it assumes you are doing a manual shift.

I will say the new ones '23+ RR are glorious. Was quite happy to go 1-2 even in stop and go situations, i was very impressed.

The ZX4R is pretty much like the KTM, it wants load for a snappy and smooth shift. Might as well get used to clutching 1-2 as well, it's almost never happy.

 

[stangn99]

If the oil cooler has no fan and little airflow, the oil temp may be to the moon. That would explain black oil.

Do you have any aftermarket guards fit over the rad/cooler?

I have both. It was fitted by the previous owner/GP bikes.
I did consider removing both but worried about rocks kicking up and damaging the oil cooler/rad.

It looks like S1000R has an air/oil HE. With no fan, that could explain why things feel different in traffic. If it had a coolant/oil HE, that would function well in traffic (as fan is getting ahead and shutting off).

I'm not really sure what this means, but is there anything I can do to improve its function?
I suppose this could be why brentune flash lowers the temp at which the fan kicks on to 90C instead of 104?

I guess the constant here is that you use the same oil and this seems way darker than usual. I am assuming filter was changed too (I know dumb question). If it is any consolation I just checked mine after 1,300 miles and it is dark (Liqui Moly, 10w40, first time I use this brand). I had a stop and go detour over the weekend for at least 20 minutes and the fan cycled on and off many times. So not sure if colour is a good indicator as you stated in your first post. I would be worried if shifting was clunky after it cooled.
You said you've used this oil before in other bikes, was it the same weight? It is just the 5w worries me.

Edit: I thought there might be an oil viscosity choice but I see in your previous post only 5W, what is their recommended oil change km range?

Yes, all previous bikes called for 5w40, with the exception of the street triple which, if I remember correctly, also accepted 10w50.
The recommend oil change interval is every 10,000km, which is crazy to me. I keep my bikes for quite some time so I have no issue doing an oil + filter change at half the recommended interval for piece of mind.

BMW gearshift assist pro works best when the engine is under increasing load like acceleration. Seeing it is a new bike to you, would suggest checking the bike's forum BMW S1000R - Worldwide Forum and Owners Club and youtube

Regardless, you can also look into Yioutube below;
my bike has 70,000k and have not had to reset it, but it can get out of syncetc for several reasons including changing rearsets etc. high temps in slow moving traffic or accidentally activating the defeat switch on the clutch leaver.
shift assist will not work if you pull in the clutch leaver as it assumes you are doing a manual shift.

The old Triumph was the same, actually. I didn't have to go full throttle or anything, but the engine definitely wanted to be climbing in RPMS for the quick shifter to work smoothly. The issue I have here is that even using the clutch results in somewhat clunky feeling shifts...but only when in traffic.

 

[GreyGhost]

I have both. It was fitted by the previous owner/GP bikes.
I did consider removing both but worried about rocks kicking up and damaging the oil cooler/rad.


I'm not really sure what this means, but is there anything I can do to improve its function?
I suppose this could be why brentune flash lowers the temp at which the fan kicks on to 90C instead of 104?




Yes, all previous bikes called for 5w40, with the exception of the street triple which, if I remember correctly, also accepted 10w50.
The recommend oil change interval is every 10,000km, which is crazy to me. I keep my bikes for quite some time so I have no issue doing an oil + filter change at half the recommended interval for piece of mind.


The old Triumph was the same, actually. I didn't have to go full throttle or anything, but the engine definitely wanted to be climbing in RPMS for the quick shifter to work smoothly. The issue I have here is that even using the clutch results in somewhat clunky feeling shifts...but only when in traffic.

Wandering around on the internet I found a thread where bmw was denying warranty claims for overheating if guards were installed. They will significantly impede airflow. I may pull the guard off the oil cooler to get as much air as possible through it. Yes, it may get beat up over time but cooking your oil isn't great for the bike either.

As for the discussion of oil/coolant heat exchanger, probably irrelevant as your bike doesn't work that way but I guess you could potentially add one which would stabilize oil temps. Painful to plumb it in though.

 

[stangn99]

Wandering around on the internet I found a thread where bmw was denying warranty claims for overheating if guards were installed. They will significantly impede airflow. I may pull the guard off the oil cooler to get as much air as possible through it. Yes, it may get beat up over time but cooking your oil isn't great for the bike either.

As for the discussion of oil/coolant heat exchanger, probably irrelevant as your bike doesn't work that way but I guess you could potentially add one which would stabilize oil temps. Painful to plumb it in though.

Okay. I'm going to give this a go. I'll remove both guards and see if it makes a difference. I'm willing to keep it off even if it's a slight improvement.
Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[stangn99]

Quick update:

Thank you @GreyGhost! I removed the radiator guard (but left the oil cooler guard for now) and the bike is in fact running cooler! I did a short test riding around city streets hitting some traffic, some 30 zones, traffic lights etc. The temperature did not exceed 102C. Previously it would 104C.

More importantly, I noticed when the fan kicks on at 102C it drops the temps down to 94 much, much quicker (a few seconds versus what felt like a minute or so previously).

One other observation: When the temp hits 102C and traffic starts to move, even travelling at 10-15kph allows the temps to drop to about 98-99C much quicker. Previously it made no difference (100-104+C) until I consistently travelled at 30-45kph for a few minutes.

So I would say on average I've seeing a temperature decrease of about 2-3C when stationary, which is pretty significant. The fan certainly doesn't run as often either in slow moving traffic. I'm going to remove the oil cooler guard next and do another test.

I did also do an oil change with Motul 7100 again and can confirm the shifter is much smoother whether I use Shift Assist or the clutch. I could feel the difference immediately, and the feel didn't change in any way when stuck in traffic. My only assumption here is the oil did in fact degrade at less than 2,000km. I'll do some more testing just to confirm.

 

[ReSTored]

I used Rotella dino 15w-40 in my ST1100 for the 18 years I had it. Low stressed, low rev. motor, compared to yours. After 2,500 - 3,000 km in the twisties in the US I could feel a significant difference in shift smoothness. It became rough and notchy, an oil change restored things to normal.

Currently using Motul 5100 semi synthetic in my Tracer. Same roads in US don't seem to impact shift smoothness. Different bike, different oil, but who knows.

You've just changed oil and put the 7100 back in. See how it performs. If the same degradation occurs then, as already suggested by several people, I'd just switch out to a different brand of fully sythetic oil and see if it makes a difference.

 

[stangn99]

Quick update on this.

I've now hit 1,500km again since changing the oil, and while I haven't checked the colour of the oil in the bike yet, I've observed a few things:

1. I've actively tried to avoid being stuck in traffic and haven't really experienced "notchy" shifting
2. When I do get stuck in traffic it's really not as bad as before, and the temps drop rather quickly when the fan turns on (thanks @GreyGhost for the rad guard tip)
3. With ambient temperature cooling the bike seems to run really, really well...so much so that the front end keeps wanting to lift in "road" mode without necessarily trying to get it to lift.

One thing I find super annoying with the BMW is how the clutch cable operates. You are supposed to set the lever free play to 0.5mm on a cold engine. Once at operating temp, you will have about 2-3mm free play. I find this really annoying and unpredictable. It feels like the engagement point dynamically changes with engine temps. For example in heavy traffic with the engine super hot, the free play feels like more than 3mm, and the engagement/disengagement point isn't really consistent.

I did some googling and sure enough others are complaining about the same thing. It almost feels like the cable is stretching...but it's not. Once you get moving and engine temps drop to high 70's to 80's, you're back to about 2-3mm of free play.

Anyway...my conclusion is that my last oil lasted only 1,500km because of excessive heat caused from being stuck in traffic too often and the rad guard reducing airflow to efficiently cool the bike. Hot ambient temps didn't help either.

It's obviously not a city bike, and while I don't really regret my purchase, I'll probably look to changing things up or going back to Street Triple in a year or two.