Noob Riding errors..plz help

[cknowles]

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guys...I've memorized twist of the wrist 2...I watched that video and memorized it 2 years BEFORE i purchased the bike....I think fast turns rumbling down ,trail breaking and trying to lean the bike is doing it for me....target fixation thing happens when I go fast...

First of all cudo's for recognizing that you are making mistakes and seeking advice!

You've already received some excellent advice here, I'd just like to add a bit to help if I may

Memorizing is only useful for passing tests in school. You haven't learned it. Riding is a skill, and the only way to get good at it is to train your body to react properly. Understanding is only part of the equation. Your body has to react instinctively. To make a turn you cannot be consciously thinking of all the steps you need to do.

I've put over 15,000 kms in the past 2 years since I started riding. I still consider myself a noob. I've been watching Twist of the Wrist as well and take each lesson one at a time and try to use it each time I'm riding. There is so much crammed into the movie you can't possibly put it all into practice in your first 300 kms. Each of the lessons builds on the previous one, become proficient with lesson one before attempting lesson 2, etc.

You can do this, be patient, go slow until things start to become natural. With time you will improve.

 

[gtamike]

A lot of great advice already given, but here's my $0.02.

Work your way up to your limits slowly (literally, slowly). Go into corners slower than you think you need to, and as you get comfortable with your technique and form, slowly increase your entry speed into corners. If you're not managing your throttle, body position, where you're looking etc. at slow speeds, what makes you think you'll do it at higher speeds? Work your way up slowly to your envelope, bit by bit.

The parting words of my RTI instructor were something like, "As a new rider, you're starting out with two bags: a big bag of luck, and a nearly-empty bag of skill. Your bag of luck is running out, so you'd better fill that bag of skill before it does."

One more thing: I find the Twist of the Wrist II video assumes your end goal is to go through corners as quickly as possible, and the advice seems geared towards track riding and performance. Remember to contextualize the techniques taught there for the street - the goal of street riding is to arrive safe and alive, not get from A to B as fast as possible.

 

[mikbusa]

One more thing: I find the Twist of the Wrist II video assumes your end goal is to go through corners as quickly as possible, and the advice seems geared towards track riding and performance. Remember to contextualize the techniques taught there for the street - the goal of street riding is to arrive safe and alive, not get from A to B as fast as possible.

I kind of disagree, the general theme to Twist of the Wrist is defeating Survival Responses. By increasing your cornering abilities and training yourself to not fall into panic mistakes, you are safer, especially when riding at reasonable speeds.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

You've got to walk, before you can run. Slow down.

Concentrate on making the basic mechanics of riding a bike (acceleration, braking, clutch and gears) automatic. Work on head position so that, like BrianP said, you're looking through the corner. The simple maxim "you go where you look" is absolutely true, on a motorcycle. Start by actually exaggerating your head position so that your whole head is aimed at the exit of the corner, or beyond. That will tend to force your sight line in that direction too. Keep your head upright and level. This will tend to make you feel like you're going slower in a corner than you are, which will help to avoid panic reactions like grabbing a handful of brake. Braking, mid corner, tends to stand the bike up and make you run wide, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid. If your head is angled, low on the bike, or aimed at the patch of road that's 6 feet in front of your front tire then you'll feel like your going far faster than you are, which will increase the chance of a panic reaction.

Once you've got the basic mechanics of riding down and have your head position right, you can then go on to building other skills. If you don't start with these basics then you'll be making it far more difficult on yourself.

 

[bboySushi]

Lean the bike, not your body?

Do you feel when you are making those wife left turns that you are going to fall? If so, then that's another reason you may be going wide; you are not used to what the bike feels like when it is leaned over in a counter steered turn. Do NOT chop the throttle keep it on steady and roll it on if necessary, never decrease your throttle in a turn unless you have great control or you will unbalance your bike and as a result stand it up and go wide or low side.

What you could do is do mini swerves in a straight line, swerving harder and harder so you slowly creep to the edges of the tires and get used to that feeling of the bike not being verically upright.

 

[ZX600]

Lean the bike, not your body?

, never decrease your throttle in a turn unless you have great control or you will unbalance your bike and as a result stand it up and go wide or low side.

What you could do is do mini swerves in a straight line, swerving harder and harder so you slowly creep to the edges of the tires and get used to that feeling of the bike not being verically upright.

WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?

Dude please, don't give any more advice

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Lean the bike, not your body?

Only at extremely low speeds, where it can have the benefit of reducing turning radius. Other than that you should be leaning with the bike, or leaning further than the bike in order to lower the C of G.

 

[Brian P]

The parting words of my RTI instructor were something like, "As a new rider, you're starting out with two bags: a big bag of luck, and a nearly-empty bag of skill. Your bag of luck is running out, so you'd better fill that bag of skill before it does."

Darn good words, at that.

One more thing: I find the Twist of the Wrist II video assumes your end goal is to go through corners as quickly as possible, and the advice seems geared towards track riding and performance. Remember to contextualize the techniques taught there for the street - the goal of street riding is to arrive safe and alive, not get from A to B as fast as possible.

Valid, but do understand that knowing how to go through corners as quickly as possible, improves your margin of safety when riding at lower speeds and cornering angles on the street.

 

[Charlie-brm]

Everyone keeps saying "lean the bike", but no one mentions that the most effective way of doing that is not with your body, it's by counter-steering. Push on the right handlebar to go right, push on the left to go left. Don't look at the obstacle you're trying to avoid (guardrail, car, etc), look in the direction you want to steer towards.

Thanks for bringing that up before I felt the need to. It might be an over reaction on my part, but telling a novice to lean to turn will help get them scraped off the side of an oncoming truck in a sweeper. It does not work on its own. You need to apply more pressure to the bar to turn more and I'd say for 8/10ths of riding situations, it's sufficient for 8/10ths of the riders.

Sid, I'll bet your hands are fighting each other for control in the corners so nothing ends up happening. You do better in rights because your right side is dominant. It takes you less subconscious effort to push hard enough with your right to make the turn. Lefts are wider. They should be easier to negotiate. This is the exact problem I had year one and I got myself out of it.

Find some lazy curves on a quiet country road that take maybe 5 to 10 seconds to go through. Approach them so you are doing more right turns than lefts since you do better at rights from what I'm reading.
Feel how you can control the line through the curve with just your right hand. Your left hand should be doing nothing but resting on the grip. Use the whole lane and move from the shoulder out to the center line and back, using just more and less push with your right hand until you are running exactly where you want to be at any time.

Reverse the situation with left sweepers. Relax your right hand, grip firmly with the left and feel the muscles in your left side doing all the work until you're in charge of where the bike's running in the lane, in and out.
If I'm correct, you'll be surprised at how much more effort you need to train your left side to be up to the task.

And for sure, start the curve at a slower than normal speed. Eyeball the exit of the curve like you own it. Push on the bar. Roll on throttle as you go. (And I know RTI pounded that into our class - always roll on)
The bike will feel better the whole time and your speed will be back up to normal or better when you're done.
Good luck and don't beat yourself up. You're way ahead already admitting you have a fault to fix.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Actually the OP mentioned counter steering in his first post.

 

[Qualdoth]

i went RTI aswell and have the same experience, not much knowledge on how real life riding works, its mainly the basics like how to turn a bike on and ride around the block.

The skills you learned at RTI (slow speed riding, counter steering, accelerating, braking, etc) are all applicable to real life riding. If you think all you learned is just how to "ride around the block" I would suggest you weren't really paying attention during the course and as such are not applying what was taught.

 

[Qualdoth]

You've got to walk, before you can run. Slow down.

Concentrate on making the basic mechanics of riding a bike (acceleration, braking, clutch and gears) automatic. Work on head position so that, like BrianP said, you're looking through the corner. The simple maxim "you go where you look" is absolutely true, on a motorcycle. Start by actually exaggerating your head position so that your whole head is aimed at the exit of the corner, or beyond. That will tend to force your sight line in that direction too. Keep your head upright and level. This will tend to make you feel like you're going slower in a corner than you are, which will help to avoid panic reactions like grabbing a handful of brake. Braking, mid corner, tends to stand the bike up and make you run wide, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid. If your head is angled, low on the bike, or aimed at the patch of road that's 6 feet in front of your front tire then you'll feel like your going far faster than you are, which will increase the chance of a panic reaction.

Once you've got the basic mechanics of riding down and have your head position right, you can then go on to building other skills. If you don't start with these basics then you'll be making it far more difficult on yourself.

+1 Head and eyes are the #1 problem for nearly all students in riding schools and I would therefore presume, noobs on the street.

 

[3fundred]

The skills you learned at RTI (slow speed riding, counter steering, accelerating, braking, etc) are all applicable to real life riding. If you think all you learned is just how to "ride around the block" I would suggest you weren't really paying attention during the course and as such are not applying what was taught.

This

 

[youngrider]

The skills you learned at RTI (slow speed riding, counter steering, accelerating, braking, etc) are all applicable to real life riding. If you think all you learned is just how to "ride around the block" I would suggest you weren't really paying attention during the course and as such are not applying what was taught.

it was braking at 40km/h, turning at 30km/h and accelerating slowly, on the road its a lot different. It sure did help me get off my driveway and out of my neighbourhood but other than that on the road it hasn't helped me at all. Guess I got stuck in the wrong class.

 

[Xuryfluous]

it was braking at 40km/h, turning at 30km/h and accelerating slowly, on the road its a lot different. It sure did help me get off my driveway and out of my neighbourhood but other than that on the road it hasn't helped me at all. Guess I got stuck in the wrong class.

All the things you listed are what you need to ride on the street. Turning over 20km/h you use counter steering, braking techniques are exactly the same (front brakes over a brisk walking pace, rear under that speed) and throttle control. Riding at the posted speed limits those three things right there are your building blocks of riding, and will always be applicable, from there its just matters of degree. Apply more force on the bars to lean the bike over more in a turn, apply more brake to stop the bike quicker, or roll on the throttle more to accelerate quicker.

From the sounds of it you went through the course thinking that there are completely different skills needed to ride fast rather than slow, and if so then I don't think you really grasped the course at all. If you're not comfortable riding on higher speed limit roads build your confidence and skill on 50/60 km/h roads. If you're still having trouble with those, it might be a good idea to take another course. I know most places offer refresher courses, or even take the m1 exit course again.

Yeah it may be a blow to your ego, but honestly when riding you need to leave your ego at home. And the money you'll spend on the course will be significantly less than what you'll eventually spend on repairs or replacing gear from going down over and over, or even worse a major injury or death

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[gtamike]

I kind of disagree, the general theme to Twist of the Wrist is defeating Survival Responses. By increasing your cornering abilities and training yourself to not fall into panic mistakes, you are safer, especially when riding at reasonable speeds.

That's totally fair - I kind of threw out an unqualified statement, which is why I said "contextualize". All the lessons in Twist are applicable to the street, of course.

From the sounds of it you went through the course thinking that there are completely different skills needed to ride fast rather than slow, and if so then I don't think you really grasped the course at all. If you're not comfortable riding on higher speed limit roads build your confidence and skill on 50/60 km/h roads. If you're still having trouble with those, it might be a good idea to take another course. I know most places offer refresher courses, or even take the m1 exit course again.

I remember reading somewhere about a track instructor saying that proficiency with slow speed maneuvers is a strong predictor of overall track performance. He could tell which students would be performance best at full speed by how good they were at slow speeds.

 

[sid_for_speed]

it was braking at 40km/h, turning at 30km/h and accelerating slowly, on the road its a lot different. It sure did help me get off my driveway and out of my neighbourhood but other than that on the road it hasn't helped me at all. Guess I got stuck in the wrong class.

Thankyou all who responded...to this extent today, when I went out I did Exactly the same thing...take turns slowly...rights at 30kmph using counter steering, lefts( and yes I still look at the ground..but remind myself to look up and suddenly do look up)...I brake long before the turns come in ( who cares if the car behind me is cursing)....i also talk out loud to myself which help...literally screeming ..."fing look up, look up all the way untill i complete the turn...I say out loud which gear I'm in while upshifting and say out loud again as I down shift to a stop...i say out loud to myself about hazards coming my way and yes...as some one has said I'm trying to slow the f down....


During turns I do remember to countersteer (although at 30 kmph not much force is needed)

I've not had to pull any emergency tricks yet but i do leave a long space between the other car...again who cares if the guy behind me is ******....

Wanna be Rossi some day!!!!

but for now it's chicken wings and "chicken strips" for dinner!

 

[sid_for_speed]

There is a question that I must ask though...

apply more pressure to lean the bike further...

Once initial counter steering input is done and the bike starts to lean, if the turn tightens up...what does "apply more pressure on the handle bar mean"...

If there's any one who's good at physics here ( vector diagrams..)

what is the direction of this "pressure" that i should apply to lean it harder?

downwards pressure on the left handlebar ( if I'm going left) or

"leftwards pressure " on the left handle bar ( again if going left)?

 

[Lightcycle]

what is the direction of this "pressure" that i should apply to lean it harder?
downwards pressure on the left handlebar ( if I'm going left) or
"leftwards pressure " on the left handle bar ( again if going left)?

There's only one axis of rotation that the steering stem moves in.

Push in that direction. Anything else would be inefficient.

 

[koma]

There is a question that I must ask though...

apply more pressure to lean the bike further...

Once initial counter steering input is done and the bike starts to lean, if the turn tightens up...what does "apply more pressure on the handle bar mean"...

If there's any one who's good at physics here ( vector diagrams..)

what is the direction of this "pressure" that i should apply to lean it harder?

downwards pressure on the left handlebar ( if I'm going left) or

"leftwards pressure " on the left handle bar ( again if going left)?

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EFm3honeTQo#t=161s

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